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      10-29-2013, 08:17 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RhoXS View Post
NYCX3, this is just an opinion but I also think this needs to be said.

Sometimes, no matter the car brand, for whatever reason, a vehicle is just a series of problems. I do not doubt you have had some bad luck and probably have an X3 that has its more than its fair share of issues. Nevertheless, you started this thread with a global statement about BMW; "And the BMW Trainwreck continues:". By trashing BMW, a universally well respected manufacturer by referencing a recall that no manufacturer is immune from, and not addressing the specific issues with your specific vehicle, you destroyed your credibility, at least in my mind and apparently many others.

BMW is a very successful company, albeit not perfect. They build vehicles that provide a driving experience that is just not available with most other makes. BMW products certainly are not trouble free but they are very credible well liked machines. Categorizing BMW overall as a train wreck just does not solicit the same sympathy and same help you might have received had you just addressed the issues you are having with your specific car.
Your point is certainly valid from your perspective, but let me share this with you:

1. Brake failure, which isn't a minor recall issue, is quite serious for a respectable car maker.

2. Inventory supply computer software being down for more than 6 months, whereas, people cannot get new parts to fix their BMW's is also serious matter.

3. Refusing to provide the # to Germany headquarters when I called US Customer Service, is yet another testament to the declining quality of BMW and the disconnect between the company and the drivers.

4. The elimination of Hydraulic Steering (is what gave BMW that "on the rails" of the road, that legendary control feel), installation of the hard run-flat tires that destroy ride comfort, the premium sound system that is already cracking in 3 speakers after about 1 year of use, the positive adjustment of the rear negative camber from -2.0 (in previous models) to -0.5 in the F25, thereby, lowering G-Force numbers and further reducing control. Cmmon guys, this is the Ultimate Driving Machine, what the heck are they doing to it! It pains me to see this destruction taking place.

The Truth is, most people love their BMW's, I did too when I purchased my first X3 in 2006, however, seeing what is going on in 2013 with the X3 and BMW in general, I can say it's a steep decline which will affect the re-sale values of BMW's. I do not feel it is a car I want to depend on for another year, since so much has already gone wrong, and so little was done by BMW about it, I respect myself enough to find a better brand.

It's simply free market at work, a King does loose his throne eventually, and every Brand is susceptible to decline and failure, and BMW is no exception. BMW built it's respect, certainly, now it is destroying it. It's taken on too much too fast, the Chinese Production center, the US production center... X1, X4, X7, 1 series, etc, etc. they have gone far from their German Heritage and are loosing control of quality with such a wide spread. The more things you have on your plate, the less time and energy you can dedicate to ensure quality, just look at the mass produced chinese goods. You want your BMW to say "made in china"?

I Loved how BMW used to be, perhaps this is why I am so upset about what is happening to them, but just because I own a BMW, I will not blindly worship the brand when I see it is going down the tubes IMO. Time to move on.

Last edited by NYCX3; 10-29-2013 at 08:27 PM..
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      10-29-2013, 08:29 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by The X Men View Post
I dont think anybody here is going to debate rather BMW is the most reliable brand, they are about average in reliability in many surveys, there are other brands that are worst. Knowing this, many people still buy BMW for one reason or another. There are other brands that are rated much higher in reliability such as Lexus, but that is based on the average of many owners. I had a 2008 Lexus GS350 that spended more time in the shop than my last two BMW combined. Ratings aside, rather you get a reliable car or not still somewhat comes down to the luck of the draw. There are many happy BMW owners in here with very few problems and then there are quite a few owners like yourself who has nothing but problems. The bottom line is that, BMW as a whole is about average in relaibility, and every once a while, you will get a bad apple.
For me, the writing is on the wall. I seen enough bad strategic business moves by BMW which IMO will cause it's decline as Ultimate Driving Machine, and if it survives, it will join ranks of Toyota, a common car for the common folk, a dime a dozen.
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      10-30-2013, 08:08 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYCX3 View Post
For me, the writing is on the wall. I seen enough bad strategic business moves by BMW which IMO will cause it's decline as Ultimate Driving Machine, and if it survives, it will join ranks of Toyota, a common car for the common folk, a dime a dozen.
You do understand that BMW is car company and not a racing company right? Their goal is to increase their share of the market and increase profit, just like any other company. If you keep up with BMW's annual reports, they are doing a little better than surviving, they have been on a record pace the last few years. BMW still makes the Ultimate Driving Machine, its just that now you have pay extra for the options.
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      10-30-2013, 11:30 AM   #26
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787's were also built in South Carolina
Apart from the excellent engines which being Rolls Royce were built in the UK.
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      10-30-2013, 02:02 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYCX3 View Post
4. The elimination of Hydraulic Steering (is what gave BMW that "on the rails" of the road, that legendary control feel), installation of the hard run-flat tires that destroy ride comfort, the premium sound system that is already cracking in 3 speakers after about 1 year of use, the positive adjustment of the rear negative camber from -2.0 (in previous models) to -0.5 in the F25, thereby, lowering G-Force numbers and further reducing control. Cmmon guys, this is the Ultimate Driving Machine, what the heck are they doing to it! It pains me to see this destruction taking place.
I'm sorry you had such a bad experience with your X3 and don't blame you for leaving the brand. My last bimmer was a 2008 135i (Year One of the One) and it was in the shop for a host of issues. My 2012 X3, on the other hand, has been rock solid. So was my 2007 X3.

Steering: I also prefer hydraulic steering, but the DHP option upgrades the steering feel (and throttle and suspension) significantly. If one cares about steering feel, since BMW went to electronic steering, DHP is a must-have. For me, the thick M Sport steering wheel and the precise, tight control at speed in Sport/Sport+ is a fun combo.

Runflats: My old X3, which had 18" wheels and non-runflats, had a much harsher ride (crash-bang over bumps). I agree that generally runflats hurt ride quality, but not by too much anymore; the safety benefits, space/weight savings and convenience of driving after a puncture outweigh the negatives IMO. And even when the car is in Sport or Sport+, I don't find the ride too harsh unless the road is really bumpy...I'd switch to Normal mode in that case.

Premium audio: My premium audio has been fine. So there was an inventory computer outage that made fixing this issue difficult? I'd be pissed too. Or did you blow your speakers and BMW refused to fix it under warranty? Was the problem with the head unit, the amps or the speakers? Or, was yours an assembly/wiring problem? BMW doesn't manufacture the audio system but if was a wiring issue they are at fault. Anyway this seems to be an isolated issue.

Rear camber reduction: if this happened, how can you be sure this results in loss of control? There are a complex of forces to balance and to say that adjustment was detrimental in handling is not necessarily true. An X3 in Sport or Sport+ handles better than almost any SUV, and although it's larger it also handles better than my 2007 X3 did, which had 18s (big at the time). I see you had a 2006 - certainly you agree (your issues aside) the new X3 is an improvement in nearly every way - unless you just want a simpler vehicle with less tech.

Regarding that you think BMW is spreading it's resources thin, which is also a valid concern, most of their vehicles are still considered at or near the top of their respective classes. The X3 35i, for the time being, is still the "ultimate driving machine" in the segment (since SQ5 starts at $52K and has crap steering). I'm excited for Porsche's Macan Turbo and BMW had better step up to the challenge with an M car to compete.

The old X3s were built under contract by an independent Austrian manufacturer named Magna Steyr. Only problem I ever had on it was a burnt out rear window motor and really liked that car (my father's 2004 X3 is a POS though). New ones are made by BMW in the USA, as you know - no issues except slight wind noise on mine. My 135i was made in Leipzig, and had maddeningly poor quality...so according to this, I should never purchase BMWs made in Germany? Of course not - it's the luck of the draw - and I'm glad I bought another.
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      10-30-2013, 06:08 PM   #28
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NYCX3's next post will blame BMW for global warming, government shutdown and the health.gov website fiasco.
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      10-30-2013, 06:41 PM   #29
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Not sure what NYCX3's point is....
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      10-31-2013, 03:16 AM   #30
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I would say he appears to have a "lemon" and therefore has lost all confidence in the brand. Whilst I sympathise with his plight the option is clearly there to get rid of the offending "train crash" and change marque.
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      10-31-2013, 09:24 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scotta2 View Post
I would say he appears to have a "lemon" and therefore has lost all confidence in the brand. Whilst I sympathise with his plight the option is clearly there to get rid of the offending "train crash" and change marque.
I hear Lexus is pretty reliable
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      10-31-2013, 10:19 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYCX3 View Post
Your point is certainly valid from your perspective, but let me share this with you:

1. Brake failure, which isn't a minor recall issue, is quite serious for a respectable car maker.

<snip>

I Loved how BMW used to be, perhaps this is why I am so upset about what is happening to them, but just because I own a BMW, I will not blindly worship the brand when I see it is going down the tubes IMO. Time to move on.
I thought I would just google "recall for brake failure" to see what I would get since you are making it as if BMW is the only company out there that has dealt with brake issues.. The first article right under the BMW article was the following:

"Recall issued for braking, shifting problems at Bentley, Lamborghini, Mitsubishi"

This is followed by recalls for brake issues by Hyundai, Toyota, Suzuki, Nissan, Chrysler, GM...

I think BMW is fine.

I also quote your last paragraph because I thought it was a bit condescending implying that those who don't have the same vision as you - that BMW is "going down the tubes" is blindly worshiping the brand.

I love BMW and admittedly I would be more biased for them, but please - if BMW's production quality was significant enough of an issue that made me think the whole company was in trouble - I would move on, like I believe most people would. However, IMO I don't think most people have your point of view of the company.

The only item that has made me raise an eyebrow slightly is BMW producing more series now than ever, I think.. with now the addition of the 4 series, and whether there is a market for that.. I felt the same when the X6 came out and then the 1 series and the 1X.. Each time it seems like I was wrong so if there are buyers, so be it.
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      10-31-2013, 10:38 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The X Men View Post
I hear Lexus is pretty reliable
I have a Lexus RX-350 now and previously had another Lexus. They are indeed very reliable. Fit and finish is also very good although cabin materials (like the leather) is a much lesser quality than it once was.

There are two problems with my RX-350 that will probably preclude me from buying another Lexus.

First and most important, the driving experience is terrible, like in unacceptable. As I said in a previous post, it handles and feels just like my Dad's old big heavy 1950 and 1960 Buick Roadmasters and Electras except there is also much too much torque steer when suddenly giving it a lot of throttle. One reason I like my X3 so much is that it handles so well for a similarly sized vehicle.

Second, all those that complain about the BMW nav system should first try and use the incredibly bad Lexus system. Once the car has way on both driver and passenger are locked out from most functions. We cannot search for restaurants, hotels, etc unless we pull over and stop on the shoulder. I have a late model Lexus with a $2,400 nav system but also have a $200 Nuvi on the dash so we can find restaurants and hotels when on one of our frequent road trips. Unacceptable!
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      11-01-2013, 10:17 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by el jimador
NYCX3's next post will blame BMW for global warming, government shutdown and the health.gov website fiasco.
And im sure you will be right there, ready to jump on it. . Just pass by if you are against my posts.

Im talking about a car dude.

If you love you bmw, enjoy!
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      11-01-2013, 10:19 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JSY
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYCX3 View Post
Your point is certainly valid from your perspective, but let me share this with you:

1. Brake failure, which isn't a minor recall issue, is quite serious for a respectable car maker.

&lt;snip>

I Loved how BMW used to be, perhaps this is why I am so upset about what is happening to them, but just because I own a BMW, I will not blindly worship the brand when I see it is going down the tubes IMO. Time to move on.
I thought I would just google "recall for brake failure" to see what I would get since you are making it as if BMW is the only company out there that has dealt with brake issues.. The first article right under the BMW article was the following:

"Recall issued for braking, shifting problems at Bentley, Lamborghini, Mitsubishi"

This is followed by recalls for brake issues by Hyundai, Toyota, Suzuki, Nissan, Chrysler, GM...

I think BMW is fine.

I also quote your last paragraph because I thought it was a bit condescending implying that those who don't have the same vision as you - that BMW is "going down the tubes" is blindly worshiping the brand.

I love BMW and admittedly I would be more biased for them, but please - if BMW's production quality was significant enough of an issue that made me think the whole company was in trouble - I would move on, like I believe most people would. However, IMO I don't think most people have your point of view of the company.

The only item that has made me raise an eyebrow slightly is BMW producing more series now than ever, I think.. with now the addition of the 4 series, and whether there is a market for that.. I felt the same when the X6 came out and then the 1 series and the 1X.. Each time it seems like I was wrong so if there are buyers, so be it.
Time will tell. I tend to be more sensitive, and often sense a direction before it becomes obvious for most.
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      11-03-2013, 05:46 AM   #36
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NYCX3 I've noticed your rants for awhile now and I agree with you completely!

I think it's high time you do yourself a favor and get off the "train wreck" because as you so eloquently wrote in another one of your replies concerning the Zinoro - "I'm with you on that. BMW is becoming too watered down, and the quality of their recent cars shows it.
They have made profits more important than quality, and sacrificed their German Quality Tradition. Now I know many love their BMW's, but I don't love where it's headed. Pity." -


You really should get yourself a sublime automobile such as that Zinoro as real quality is such a priority with you.

You could then leave this forum and join the worldwide Zinoro aficionados forum (which you could even start) and frolic with other connoisseurs of fine, quality Chinese automobiles.

Eh what do you say?
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      11-03-2013, 05:52 AM   #37
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Ironically just this morning I saw on my dash a warning stating that the battery in my key/remote fob was depleted and needed replacing
I don't know about you all but I'm sooooo tired of this train wreck.
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      11-03-2013, 08:20 AM   #38
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It was a cold night last night and I turned on the steering wheel heater. Although the steering wheel heater worked well, and it was most obvious when it was on, I noticed the switch light, that lights when the heater is on, cannot be seen by the driver. Cannot be seen by the driver? What a train wreck!
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      11-03-2013, 05:06 PM   #39
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It was a cold night last night and I turned on the steering wheel heater. Although the steering wheel heater worked well, and it was most obvious when it was on, I noticed the switch light, that lights when the heater is on, cannot be seen by the driver. Cannot be seen by the driver? What a train wreck!
A cold night in Florida, your joking right? Scotland? now that IS cold!!
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      11-03-2013, 06:57 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by scotta2 View Post
A cold night in Florida, your joking right? Scotland? now that IS cold!!
Actually, although my home is in Florida, I am in upstate NY now and it is indeed starting to get cold here.

In any case, the incident I related was really just something anecdotal to express a bit of sarcasm.
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      11-03-2013, 11:08 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris55
NYCX3 I've noticed your rants for awhile now and I agree with you completely!

I think it's high time you do yourself a favor and get off the "train wreck" because as you so eloquently wrote in another one of your replies concerning the Zinoro - "I'm with you on that. BMW is becoming too watered down, and the quality of their recent cars shows it.
They have made profits more important than quality, and sacrificed their German Quality Tradition. Now I know many love their BMW's, but I don't love where it's headed. Pity." -


You really should get yourself a sublime automobile such as that Zinoro as real quality is such a priority with you.

You could then leave this forum and join the worldwide Zinoro aficionados forum (which you could even start) and frolic with other connoisseurs of fine, quality Chinese automobiles.

Eh what do you say?
I say: thank you for following my posts, but I think Ill stick around for a bit, i have the same right to share my experience as you. But to make it personal, thats a different level, one I care not to join you on.
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      11-11-2013, 09:45 AM   #42
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      11-26-2013, 12:27 PM   #43
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I wanted to get back to the Topic of this threat...Has anyone (X3 Owners) received a recall notice yet from BMW? I have checked my VIN on BMW's recall site and it is not showing my X3 as having a recall on it?
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      11-26-2013, 02:34 PM   #44
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No recalls, no problems whatsoever.
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