[brissim]

Following on from the release overnight (at least for us Aussies) of the details of the 3-Series LCI update, it will be interesting how long it takes before the two new petrol (gas) engines filter down/across to the X3.

As expected the LCI update included the new B58 engine to replace the N55 engine - with a change in moniker from 335i to 340i. But what was a little unexpected (at least to me) was the announcement of the replacement of the relatively short-lived N20 engine with the new B48 engine. As with the N20, the B48 will be available in two states of tune to be called the 320i and 330i.

Diesel engines for the 3-series remain much the same except for the upgrade of the N47 4-cylinder engine to the B47 that is already in Euro-spec X3s.

Interesting times ahead.

Tony

[ianfp]

It will indeed be interesting to see what they do especially as there is a big anti-diesel lobby in the UK. Will BMW introduce petrol engines to the UK?

[PerryGunn]

Originally Posted by ianfp

It will indeed be interesting to see what they do especially as there is a big anti-diesel lobby in the UK. Will BMW introduce petrol engines to the UK?

I hope so - it's a pity they don't already offer them as an option

[Schmed]

A nice little power bump would make for a nice X3 40i or whatever they'll call it. But... it probably won't be until 2017. Glad they are improving the handling and steering on the 3series. Too bad a 340i wagon isn't in the mix.

[TerraLvr335i]

A 340i wagon with a manual transmission is my middle-aged, baseball and soccer coaching dad's dream car. I think the issue is that only a handful of people agree with me here in the U.S. I've given up hope of ever seeing one here. Even Audi gave up on selling S4 wagons here.

[Schmed]

Originally Posted by TerraLvr335i

A 340i wagon with a manual transmission is my middle-aged, baseball and soccer coaching dad's dream car. I think the issue is that only a handful of people agree with me here in the U.S. I've given up hope of ever seeing one here. Even Audi gave up on selling S4 wagons here.

Well, you and I make two potential buyers!

(but in the crazy BMW pricing world, where an X1 with a 35i engine costs less than a 328i wagon, the 340i wagon would be about $60k, and I'd pass on that.)

[Peter_R]

Originally Posted by ianfp

It will indeed be interesting to see what they do especially as there is a big anti-diesel lobby in the UK. Will BMW introduce petrol engines to the UK?

Interesting statement! Please provide a link to this BIG lobby.

[m_alnimah]

Originally Posted by Schmed

A nice little power bump would make for a nice X3 40i or whatever they'll call it. But... it probably won't be until 2017. Glad they are improving the handling and steering on the 3series. Too bad a 340i wagon isn't in the mix.

They'd probably update the engines with the G01 X3...

[ianfp]

Originally Posted by Peter_R

Interesting statement! Please provide a link to this BIG lobby.

Here is an article that sums up what is going on:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/scie...pollution.html

Basically it is a ruling from the supreme court.

[MikeVictor]

Getting back on track, I'm considering a factory order X4 35i at the moment and would hate a few months to mean missing out on a new engine. Anyone able to shed any like on this further?

[Portimao318]

Originally Posted by Dabaitu

Getting back on track, I'm considering a factory order X4 35i at the moment and would hate a few months to mean missing out on a new engine. Anyone able to shed any like on this further?

Well look here. It states clearly that a new 360 bhp petrol engine for the X3 (M40i) will not arrive until the new G01 model late 2016. However, it says that this new 360 bhp petrol engine will be available for the X4 in the year 2015...

http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/n...3-8032809.html

[MikeVictor]

Originally Posted by Endre2

Well look here. It states clearly that a new 360 bhp petrol engine for the X3 (M40i) will not arrive until the new G01 model late 2016. However, it says that this new 360 bhp petrol engine will be available for the X4 in the year 2015...

http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/n...3-8032809.html

Thanks.

[Peter_R]

Originally Posted by ianfp

Here is an article that sums up what is going on:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/scie...pollution.html

Basically it is a ruling from the supreme court.

Yes. Most of us knew (and of course the vehicle manufacturers do) about the Supreme Court ruling and the Telegraph making mountains out molehills in the UK. I was just asking if you had anything new to offer.

The Supreme Court's ruling has been complied with by all vehicle manufacturers by the NOX reducing technology called Adblue see here..

http://yara.co.uk/nox-reduction/adbl...hat-is-adblue/

There are a lot more problems created by burning fossil fuels in industry than there ever was for cars. That is why the Diesel engine in its current form using Adblue is being used in more and more countries. The engines from 2015 onwards are now to EU6 levels. The following blog helps people understand what massive progress has been made and why the diesel engine will not be going away anytime soon..

http://www.rac.co.uk/community/blog/...iesel-vehicles

Anyway, now back on subject.

[ianfp]

Originally Posted by Peter_R

Yes. Most of us knew (and of course the vehicle manufacturers do) about the Supreme Court ruling and the Telegraph making mountains out molehills in the UK. I was just asking if you had anything new to offer.

The Supreme Court's ruling has been complied with by all vehicle manufacturers by the NOX reducing technology called Adblue see here..

http://yara.co.uk/nox-reduction/adbl...hat-is-adblue/

There are a lot more problems created by burning fossil fuels in industry than there ever was for cars. That is why the Diesel engine in its current form using Adblue is being used in more and more countries. The engines from 2015 onwards are now to EU6 levels. The following blog helps people understand what massive progress has been made and why the diesel engine will not be going away anytime soon..

http://www.rac.co.uk/community/blog/...iesel-vehicles

Anyway, now back on subject.

I am pleased that you already knew all about it because due to the way your question was worded, I assumed that you didn't.

What existing diesel owners (including myself) should be concerned about is the impact that this will have by way of punitive taxation on vehicles not using Adblue. Do you know if Adblue can be retrofitted to existing diesel engines? I do know that SCRs are very costly!

Back on track, petrol looks like the way forward!

[Peter_R]

ianfp... you quoted and I repeat

Originally Posted by ianfp

I am pleased that you already knew all about it because due to the way your question was worded, I assumed that you didn't.

I asked the question because you made the broad statement earlier on which I have repeated below and I wanted to know where it came from. That is a newspaper and not a recognised source for information. The story was regenerated to sell more copies because of lack of news on that day.

Originally Posted by ianfp

It will indeed be interesting to see what they do especially as there is a big anti-diesel lobby in the UK. Will BMW introduce petrol engines to the UK?

I repeat there is no big anti-diesel lobby. Just a vociferous minority who have an affiliation to the newspaper you quoted.

Also you must already know the BMW 4-series range features six engines. Petrol choices comprise the 181bhp 2.0-litre four-cylinder 420i, the 242bhp 2.0-litre four-cylinder 428i and the 302bhp 3.0-litre six-cylinder 435i.

I would suggest that if they wanted to put them in the X3 they would, but the diesel engined X3's in the UK are a market response to companies like Land Rover and also Audi who predominately use Diesels in their SUVs.

Now you say.

Originally Posted by ianfp

What existing diesel owners (including myself) should be concerned about is the impact that this will have by way of punitive taxation on vehicles not using Adblue. Do you know if Adblue can be retrofitted to existing diesel engines? I do know that SCRs are very costly!

Back on track, petrol looks like the way forward!

Why are you asking such questions and then saying "Back on track"? This is being dismissive. Who says petrol is the way forward? Especially as even more manufacturers are now complying with EU6 for diesel engines.

So my statement to you, is if you do not want a response, please do not ask the question.

Thanks

[ianfp]

Originally Posted by Peter_R

ianfp... you quoted and I repeat



I asked the question because you made the broad statement earlier on which I have repeated below and I wanted to know where it came from. That is a newspaper and not a recognised source for information. The story was regenerated to sell more copies because of lack of news on that day.



I repeat there is no big anti-diesel lobby. Just a vociferous minority who have an affiliation to the newspaper you quoted.

Also you must already know the BMW 4-series range features six engines. Petrol choices comprise the 181bhp 2.0-litre four-cylinder 420i, the 242bhp 2.0-litre four-cylinder 428i and the 302bhp 3.0-litre six-cylinder 435i.

I would suggest that if they wanted to put them in the X3 they would, but the diesel engined X3's in the UK are a market response to companies like Land Rover and also Audi who predominately use Diesels in their SUVs.

Now you say.



Why are you asking such questions and then saying "Back on track"? This is being dismissive. Who says petrol is the way forward? Especially as even more manufacturers are now complying with EU6 for diesel engines.

So my statement to you, is if you do not want a response, please do not ask the question.

Thanks

My link to the Daily telegraph article was for convenience only. There is a lot of information out there concerning The Supreme Court's ruling and the whole subject of NO and NO2 emissions.

I am not saying this to try and be argumentative as I stand to lose as much as you do when legislation is eventually passed.

I sincerely wish you had an argument that made me feel more comfortable about my investment in my diesel car!

[Peter_R]

Originally Posted by ianfp

My link to the Daily telegraph article was for convenience only. There is a lot of information out there concerning The Supreme Court's ruling and the whole subject of NO and NO2 emissions.

I am not saying this to try and be argumentative as I stand to lose as much as you do when legislation is eventually passed.

I sincerely wish you had an argument that made me feel more comfortable about my investment in my diesel car!

Ian

I am doing my best to make you comfortable!

What legislation are you thinking will be passed? None will be.

The UK government is our legislative authority. That is why there is all this fuss about us leaving the EU because of laws/rules created by self appointed non elected bureaucrats in Europe. The Supreme Court? There are many cases where countries completely ignore this Court.

The UK will never make things retrospective and penalise existing diesel ownership. Just look at the transport infrastructure and heavy lorries and ships that use diesel oil. This high general usage throughout is the reason for new emission controls. These controls are working and and being used.

I could go on and on, but rest assured any government who tries to penalise existing diesel engine owners would get voted out of office.

Thanks

[Portimao318]

Originally Posted by Peter_R

Ian

I could go on and on, but rest assured any government who tries to penalise existing diesel engine owners would get voted out of office.

Thanks

Don't be so sure about that. Look at Holland ! After 1980 diesel cars became popular (before that there weren't any availabe but a Peugeot 504 or a Mercedes 200 D). The Dutch gouvernment didn't want to loose any tax income on petrol (because tax on a liter Diesel is a lot lower), so what did they do?

First they doubled (yes!) the yearly roadtax for Diesel cars. A BMW X3 2.0i costs about 1.000 euro tax per year, the 20d almost 2.000 euro per year.

Than, in the late 1990's they had another idea to prevent people from buying a Diesel car. The gouvernment introduced a penalty tax on the purchase price of any new Diesel car of 2.000 euro (not for trucks).

This was all done because Diesel engines would "pollute the environment"!
Maybe this was so in the 1980's, but a modern Diesel engine is really clean, I think.

In Holland, now you need to drive more than 25.000km up to 35.000km (depending on the car) per year before it is cheaper to drive a diesel car.

[Peter_R]

Originally Posted by Endre2

Don't be so sure about that. Look at Holland ! After 1980 diesel cars became popular (before that there weren't any availabe but a Peugeot 504 or a Mercedes 200 D). The Dutch gouvernment didn't want to loose any tax income on petrol (because tax on a liter Diesel is a lot lower), so what did they do?

First they doubled (yes!) the yearly roadtax for Diesel cars. A BMW X3 2.0i costs about 1.000 euro tax per year, the 20d almost 2.000 euro per year.

Than, in the late 1990's they had another idea to prevent people from buying a Diesel car. The gouvernment introduced a penalty tax on the purchase price of any new Diesel car of 2.000 euro (not for trucks).

This was all done because Diesel engines would "pollute the environment"!
Maybe this was so in the 1980's, but a modern Diesel engine is really clean, I think.

So what...that is Holland!

We are the UK and one of the largest economies in the world. In fact we are now 4th/5th and still growing faster and we will not be dictated to by the EU bureaucrats. Hence the upcoming vote to leave if they (EU) do not stop their unelected bureaucratic diktat.

If it has not already got there, then it will soon be that the diesel engine will be just as clean as the petrol engine, and, given that diesel fuel has a higher calorific value (weight for weight) and hence more efficient, then you will find more not less diesel engines being introduced and built.

Here is proof of the introduction of BMW diesel engines in the USA and you know how paranoid they are about clean engines. Not gas guzzlers!

http://www.bmwusa.com/standard/conte...eoverride=true

Why you would ask? Cleaner and more efficient is the reason, just ask the manufacturers. It cannot be argued against no matter what your source of information. If you do find negative views, it is because of bigoted points of view from the vociferous minority.

[Portimao318]

Originally Posted by Peter_R

So what...that is Holland!

We are the UK and one of the largest economies in the world. In fact we are now 4th/5th and still growing faster and we will not be dictated to by the EU bureaucrats. Hence the upcoming vote to leave if they (EU) do not stop their unelected bureaucratic diktat.

Not everything is so great in the UK however.

http://www.equalitytrust.org.uk/abou...-inequality-uk

http://www.equalitytrust.org.uk/reso...-inequality-uk

[ianfp]

Originally Posted by Peter_R

So what...that is Holland!

We are the UK and one of the largest economies in the world. In fact we are now 4th/5th and still growing faster and we will not be dictated to by the EU bureaucrats. Hence the upcoming vote to leave if they (EU) do not stop their unelected bureaucratic diktat.

If it has not already got there, then it will soon be that the diesel engine will be just as clean as the petrol engine, and, given that diesel fuel has a higher calorific value (weight for weight) and hence more efficient, then you will find more not less diesel engines being introduced and built.

Here is proof of the introduction of BMW diesel engines in the USA and you know how paranoid they are about clean engines. Not gas guzzlers!

http://www.bmwusa.com/standard/conte...eoverride=true

Why you would ask? Cleaner and more efficient is the reason, just ask the manufacturers. It cannot be argued against no matter what your source of information. If you do find negative views, it is because of bigoted points of view from the vociferous minority.

Peter,


Peter,

I cannot disagree with you, but what concerns me is that there is a bigger global shift in views towards diesel. I know it is not quite the same, but leaded petrol fell under the same scrutiny due to neuro toxins as diesel is now due to NO and NO2. Until we are out of Europe, I think the same fate can befall us as Endre has stated in Holland.

I hope I am wrong, but I worry that diesel taxes will rise further (already higher than petrol tax) and that the value of our cars will fall as cleaner diesel and petrol engines are introduced.

Perhaps I am being a pessimist?

Ian

[Peter_R]

Originally Posted by ianfp

Peter,


Peter,

I cannot disagree with you, but what concerns me is that there is a bigger global shift in views towards diesel. I know it is not quite the same, but leaded petrol fell under the same scrutiny due to neuro toxins as diesel is now due to NO and NO2. Until we are out of Europe, I think the same fate can befall us as Endre has stated in Holland.

I hope I am wrong, but I worry that diesel taxes will rise further (already higher than petrol tax) and that the value of our cars will fall as cleaner diesel and petrol engines are introduced.

Perhaps I am being a pessimist?

Ian

Definitely a pessimist and also a worrier I fear. Get over it and have a positive point of view. If you cannot, flog your car and get a cheap 1 litre petrol car.

Taxes will NOT rise because the EU have a problem. We along with Germany are one of the few net contributors to the EU. We will be listened to. I fear you are not digesting what I previously said about cleaner diesels.

Nobody, I will say that again Nobody will tax cars any higher just because they are diesels, especially because they will be as clean as petrols in the very near future.

Sorry to be optimistic, my glass is always half full.

Endre2

Do us a favour and stop posting vested interest political rubbish. It has nothing to do with diesel engines in cars.