A slightly different take on self dimming side mirrors

lbjgh · 01-31-2013, 12:30 PM

There have been a few discussions about self dimming mirror on our cars (or the lack thereof).

Anecdotally, I've found that the side mirrors do dim sufficiently given enough time when a light is directed at the sensor housed in the interior rear view mirror.

The issue is IMO, that the dimming process takes approximately 3x the duration as the interior rear view mirror. I think in most cases a driver would change lanes or adjust speed to reduce the glare irratant. This lends to the thought the side mirrors aren't dimming correctly.

Below is a short video I took of my side mirrors dimming. You'll note it takes about 3 times as much time to dim the side view mirrors. Also, notice how quickly the mirror returns to normal when the light source is taken away from the interior mirror sensor. Again a factor of 3.

So I wonder if there has been a physical hardware change between model years. I checked the coding and the coding has not changed between 2011 and 2012.

noka · 01-31-2013, 12:47 PM

Nice video but,... couldn't you narrate it or overlay some nice music track?

Very interesting. Are you saying it is 3X slower to dim than the rearview mirror but 3X faster to return to normal?

Chitown-Irish · 01-31-2013, 12:57 PM

Thanks for posting video so I can see what my mirrors are not doing.

I haven't experienced the mirrors not dimming with any other BMW prior to my X3 (loaners included) but then the others were cars without a tinted rear window and are lower to the ground which I think is the real culprit.

noka · 01-31-2013, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chitown-Irish

Thanks for posting video so I can see what my mirrors are not doing.

I haven't experienced the mirrors not dimming with any other BMW prior to my X3 (loaners included) but then the others were cars without a tinted rear window and are lower to the ground which I think is the real culprit.

Lower to the ground does not appear to be a factor, since the rearview mirror operates off the same sensors as the sideview mirrors. What does appear to affect the dimming is the length of time the sensor is seeing the light, with a shorter time required for rearview mirror dimming.

Chitown-Irish · 01-31-2013, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by noka

Lower to the ground does not appear to be a factor, since the rearview mirror operates off the same sensors as the sideview mirrors. What does appear to affect the dimming is the length of time the sensor is seeing the light, with a shorter time required for rearview mirror dimming.

My theory is that the mirrors are higher up that the sensors are not picking up the ambient light from the headlights in back but you probably are right.

noka · 01-31-2013, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chitown-Irish

My theory is that the mirrors are higher up that the sensors are not picking up the ambient light from the headlights in back but you probably are right.

I thought all sensors for mirror dimming were in the rearview mirror assembly, not the sideview mirrors. Perhaps that's not the case. Even if there were sensors in the sideview mirrors, you would think they would "see" more light than the rearview mirror, not less.

Chitown-Irish · 01-31-2013, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by noka

I thought all sensors for mirror dimming were in the rearview mirror assembly, not the sideview mirrors. Perhaps that's not the case. Even if there were sensors in the sideview mirrors, you would think they would "see" more light than the rearview mirror, not less.

I think the sensor is contained in the inside mirror which is why I am thinking that with the height of the sensor and coupled with the tinted rear window it makes the the sensor ineffective. My last comment

lbjgh · 01-31-2013, 01:53 PM

Ya, I guess I could have narrated or added music to entertain you. I could also have added comments or footnotes to the video but I don't know how.

Yes, the interior mirror dimmed in about 8-10 seconds and the side view mirrors took 25-30 seconds.

The side view mirrors then took only 8-10 seconds to return to clear.

This video removes vehicle height from the equation as I was using a LED flash light on the sensor.

Quote:

Originally Posted by noka

Nice video but,... couldn't you narrate it or overlay some nice music track?

Very interesting. Are you saying it is 3X slower to dim than the rearview mirror but 3X faster to return to normal?

BeeMdblU · 01-31-2013, 08:34 PM

That being said and I think what you did is very helpful, I recall when I wanted to get the euro mirrors and they were really expensive 1000$, the sales person told me the X3 mirrors are expensive compared to others because they contain liquid to dim vs I'm not sure what other mirrors use.

lbjgh · 02-01-2013, 09:00 AM

hmm, liquid eh?

When researching this issue I came across older BMW's which leaked fluid from the interior rear view mirror damaging shifters and consoles.

A member here (dandanio) switched to European mirrors and I wonder if these were self dimming? thread hear: http://x3.xbimmers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=585138

BeeMdblU · 02-01-2013, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lbjgh

hmm, liquid eh?

When researching this issue I came across older BMW's which leaked fluid from the interior rear view mirror damaging shifters and consoles.

A member here (dandanio) switched to European mirrors and I wonder if these were self dimming? thread hear: http://x3.xbimmers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=585138

I guess maybe someone on this forum with euro mirrors can comment on that.

motosan · 06-04-2013, 06:46 PM

Dear all:
I have initiated a formal complaint at BMW Customer Relation (1-800-831-1117). Please spare 10 minutes to log your complaint with them as well. This probably would be the most efficient way to get BMW Corporate to pay attention and do something about it.

I have checked with my dealership and his technician(s) did a comparison test with another X3 and found the dimming identical on both cars, hence they concluded no issue with auto dim on the side mirrors.... Their quality assurance is way too laughable IMO.

sfax · 06-05-2013, 05:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeeMdblU

I guess maybe someone on this forum with euro mirrors can comment on that.

I have euro mirrors and I'm pretty sure they dim much faster than this. Will check and post some results later.

motosan · 06-30-2013, 05:58 AM

OK guys, I did a side by side comparison test between my M3 and my X3. The comparison test uses a 6-LED flashlight with two levels brightness (low and high) to mimic traffic headlights at night. Here are my findings:

1. Side Mirrors only dim when Rear Mirror dims. I remember someone mentioned they operate separately but based on my test that is not the case in both M3 and X3.

2. In M3, Rear Mirror is responsive enough to dim adequately given even partial light from my 6-LED flashlight at BOTH low and high level. As a result, Side Mirrors dim as responsively and as adequately. However, this is not entirely the case with X3. In X3, Rear Mirror only responded more sensitively to 6-LED flash light at HIGH level with direct aim at it, which then turned Side Mirrors to dim adequately as well. But for low level flash light with direct aim, or partial low/high level light, X3's Rear Mirror does not dim enough to trigger adequate dimming on the Side Mirrors.

I believe the test result I observed from #2 is what's happened to X3 owners not feeling enough Side Mirror dimming. Auto Dim does work on X3, but unless you have another SUV or Monster Truck tailgating you with high beam, it is very unlikely the Rear Mirror will dim enough to trigger Side Mirrors to do the same.

You can see I used a lot of "adequate" words, indicating the X3 auto dim feature functions but does not work as desired in a practical situation.

I am going to schedule an appointment with my dealership and demonstrate my test again, and hopefully they can convince BMW to issue a TSB to make our auto dim a bit more sensitive and responsive.

This is a simple test that you all can do if you have adjustable level on your flashlight. Feel free to test it out and if you think something should be done, you should go to your dealers and complain as well as calling BMW Customer Relation (1-800-831-1117) and filing an official complaint (which takes about 10 minutes only).

01-31-2013, 12:30 PM	#1
lbjgh Lieutenant Colonel 104 Rep 1,511 Posts Drives: 2013 AW X3 M-Sport Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: North of Toronto iTrader: (0)	A slightly different take on self dimming side mirrors There have been a few discussions about self dimming mirror on our cars (or the lack thereof). Anecdotally, I've found that the side mirrors do dim sufficiently given enough time when a light is directed at the sensor housed in the interior rear view mirror. The issue is IMO, that the dimming process takes approximately 3x the duration as the interior rear view mirror. I think in most cases a driver would change lanes or adjust speed to reduce the glare irratant. This lends to the thought the side mirrors aren't dimming correctly. Below is a short video I took of my side mirrors dimming. You'll note it takes about 3 times as much time to dim the side view mirrors. Also, notice how quickly the mirror returns to normal when the light source is taken away from the interior mirror sensor. Again a factor of 3. So I wonder if there has been a physical hardware change between model years. I checked the coding and the coding has not changed between 2011 and 2012. __________________ 2013, AW, xDrive35i, M Sport Package, Technology Package, Dynamic Comfort Package, Premium Package, 3M Clear Bra, Euro foglight switch, a few coded fixes
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01-31-2013, 12:47 PM	#2
noka First Lieutenant 10 Rep 321 Posts Drives: 2013 x35i M-Sport Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: MA iTrader: (0)	Nice video but,... couldn't you narrate it or overlay some nice music track? Very interesting. Are you saying it is 3X slower to dim than the rearview mirror but 3X faster to return to normal? __________________ 2013 x35i (Space Gray, MSport, CW/CWII, DHP, Premium, Premium Sound, Technology, BMW-Apps) Retired: '09 C300 4Matic, '09 GTI, '06 750i, '05 C55, '04 R32, '03 M5, '02 GTI, '01 M5, '00 M-Coupe, '00 540i/6, '99 M3 Coupe, '98 M3 Coupe, '96 328i,... '86 4000 CS Quattro... too many to list.
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01-31-2013, 12:57 PM	#3
Chitown-Irish Second Lieutenant 15 Rep 292 Posts Drives: 11 X3 xDrive35i Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Orland Park, IL iTrader: (0)	Thanks for posting video so I can see what my mirrors are not doing. I haven't experienced the mirrors not dimming with any other BMW prior to my X3 (loaners included) but then the others were cars without a tinted rear window and are lower to the ground which I think is the real culprit. __________________ 2011 X3 xDrive35i F25 (CPO) Space Grey/Black Leather, Packages: Premium, Cold Weather, BMW Apps, Sirius and Technology. BMW CCA Member (WindyCity Chapter). Former cars: 06 750i E65 (CPO) 07 E90 335i (bought used but had problematic iDrive so sold it to get 7-series)
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01-31-2013, 08:34 PM	#9
BeeMdblU Captain 449 Rep 859 Posts Drives: F86, F25, G16 Join Date: May 2012 Location: Montreal iTrader: (0)	That being said and I think what you did is very helpful, I recall when I wanted to get the euro mirrors and they were really expensive 1000$, the sales person told me the X3 mirrors are expensive compared to others because they contain liquid to dim vs I'm not sure what other mirrors use.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

02-01-2013, 09:00 AM	#10
lbjgh Lieutenant Colonel 104 Rep 1,511 Posts Drives: 2013 AW X3 M-Sport Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: North of Toronto iTrader: (0)	hmm, liquid eh? When researching this issue I came across older BMW's which leaked fluid from the interior rear view mirror damaging shifters and consoles. A member here (dandanio) switched to European mirrors and I wonder if these were self dimming? thread hear: http://x3.xbimmers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=585138 __________________ 2013, AW, xDrive35i, M Sport Package, Technology Package, Dynamic Comfort Package, Premium Package, 3M Clear Bra, Euro foglight switch, a few coded fixes
	Appreciate 0 Quote

06-04-2013, 06:46 PM	#12
motosan Private First Class 25 Rep 109 Posts Drives: 2011 E92 ZCP M3 Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: CA iTrader: (1)	Dear all: I have initiated a formal complaint at BMW Customer Relation (1-800-831-1117). Please spare 10 minutes to log your complaint with them as well. This probably would be the most efficient way to get BMW Corporate to pay attention and do something about it. I have checked with my dealership and his technician(s) did a comparison test with another X3 and found the dimming identical on both cars, hence they concluded no issue with auto dim on the side mirrors.... Their quality assurance is way too laughable IMO.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

06-30-2013, 05:58 AM	#14
motosan Private First Class 25 Rep 109 Posts Drives: 2011 E92 ZCP M3 Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: CA iTrader: (1)	OK guys, I did a side by side comparison test between my M3 and my X3. The comparison test uses a 6-LED flashlight with two levels brightness (low and high) to mimic traffic headlights at night. Here are my findings: 1. Side Mirrors only dim when Rear Mirror dims. I remember someone mentioned they operate separately but based on my test that is not the case in both M3 and X3. 2. In M3, Rear Mirror is responsive enough to dim adequately given even partial light from my 6-LED flashlight at BOTH low and high level. As a result, Side Mirrors dim as responsively and as adequately. However, this is not entirely the case with X3. In X3, Rear Mirror only responded more sensitively to 6-LED flash light at HIGH level with direct aim at it, which then turned Side Mirrors to dim adequately as well. But for low level flash light with direct aim, or partial low/high level light, X3's Rear Mirror does not dim enough to trigger adequate dimming on the Side Mirrors. I believe the test result I observed from #2 is what's happened to X3 owners not feeling enough Side Mirror dimming. Auto Dim does work on X3, but unless you have another SUV or Monster Truck tailgating you with high beam, it is very unlikely the Rear Mirror will dim enough to trigger Side Mirrors to do the same. You can see I used a lot of "adequate" words, indicating the X3 auto dim feature functions but does not work as desired in a practical situation. I am going to schedule an appointment with my dealership and demonstrate my test again, and hopefully they can convince BMW to issue a TSB to make our auto dim a bit more sensitive and responsive. This is a simple test that you all can do if you have adjustable level on your flashlight. Feel free to test it out and if you think something should be done, you should go to your dealers and complain as well as calling BMW Customer Relation (1-800-831-1117) and filing an official complaint (which takes about 10 minutes only).
	Appreciate 0 Quote