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      06-03-2012, 10:59 PM   #1
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Start/Stop and Break In

A friend of mine just picked up his new Porsche 911 Carrera S cabrio. It's equipped with start/stop and his dealer told him very strongly NOT to use it until after the break in period is over. Short trips are generally not great for cars and particularly during break in. Each time this technology shuts the engine down it represents a short trip according to the dealer. I am annoyed that I didn't think of this nor was I notified and I now have 320km (200mi) on my car where this feature was active.

I am a a huge BMW fanatic and rarely nit pick. I think the engineering this company does is second to none however I can't help thinking this start/stop feature may be creating more difficulties in the long run than benefits.
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      06-04-2012, 12:26 PM   #2
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Seriously guys not one reply? If the conversation is about where to store your change, or what neat button was discovered there are 1000 remarks. A topic of substance and importance like the cars' mechanicals gets nothing? I realize it's not a sexy topic and break in periods have been discussed a lot, but not as it relates to start/stop. Any intelligent insight is welcome.
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      06-04-2012, 01:19 PM   #3
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I really don't see the problem with start/stop: it's not new technology. These days it's well engineered with beefed up components and intelligent logic as to when it works and when it won't. What's not to like?

It's been available on a number of European cars in Europe for a sometime. And you have to admit that if it still had liabilities to it, the last place on earth it would be offered would be the U.S.

As to your friend with the 991S - ask him where in the handbook does Porsche strongly recommend not using stop/start technology? If it were a real issue there would a) be a highly visible warning b) a lockout for the running in period where it could not be used.

If we still have luddite thinking on this maybe we should ask BMW for the option of a little man with a red flag to walk in front of our vehicles...
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      06-04-2012, 02:53 PM   #4
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So far I have 1047 miles on my 28i. There is no issue with start stop with conjunction on Eco pro.
I have been using both of them always, since the day I got it from from the dealer ^_^.
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      06-04-2012, 02:55 PM   #5
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Yep, no problem with start/stop on my car with 2400kms.

I really don't think BMW would implement start/stop without doing its engineering due diligence.
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      06-04-2012, 04:26 PM   #6
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Not to mention StartStop has been out in ROW markets long before it arrived in North America.
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      06-04-2012, 05:40 PM   #7
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Have had my 2013 X3 for 2 1/2 weeks now 1500miles: and hate the start stop. My car shakes and shutters with it each time. Dealer tells me that's normal. Don't think so. My bigger problem is that the engine sounds like crap..more like a diesel. Again the dealer says it's normal.
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      06-04-2012, 09:04 PM   #8
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On my '13 X3 35, the 1st think I do is push the selector to the left to engage sport mode and turn off stop/start. That has to be the dumbest feature to date!

I'd love to know how many years i'd have to have the X3 with s/s on, before I save $20 worth of gas!

Just my 2 cents
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      06-05-2012, 04:10 AM   #9
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Without an electric oil pump (= one delivering oil pressure independently from crankshaft rpm) I'm very wary of that whole start/stop thing. Then of course idling for a long-ish time at low oil pressure is also not good, but I think high-frequency start/stops in city traffic are worse than idling for the engine. Maybe I'm wrong ...
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      06-05-2012, 05:16 AM   #10
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The feature is less designed to save money on fuel and much more designed to save needless pollution while at a stop.
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      06-05-2012, 05:38 AM   #11
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Definitely it is better to suspend "start&stop" function on the brake in period if u care about your engine. The problem is more accentuaded by the icy weather.
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      06-05-2012, 05:50 AM   #12
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My daughters Toyota tells her how much fuel she saves from using Stop/Start and it can be as much as 10% on a busy day in/round town!

I don’t see BMW fitting it unless they were 110% sure it worked and was not going to give issues down the line!

We have done 2000+ miles and it has worked fine, it also monitors the battery and so doesn't always work when you first set off! It has been faultless (including 30 mins in traffic waiting to get into the BMW PGA Golf!) - I think some people need to learn to trust the technology!
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      06-05-2012, 08:55 AM   #13
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It is not about "trust in technologies", it is about optimum brake in. The differences will not appear after 2000 miles, will appear after 20.000 miles. U can not give an adult food to a babe or u can not put a new born babe to walking in a first day :-). The hidden defects, will not be caused by brake in perriod but the excessive wearing out, yes.
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      06-05-2012, 10:52 AM   #14
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So none of the manufacturers who have been offering stop/start technology have done any durability testing to establish wear and tear with the system before they introduced it to the consumer? So they have upgraded components on a whim, just adding expense to the vehicle cost because they felt like it? That they have no concerns about liability and warranty costs? All seems very naive to me.

If you don't trust that BMW did this work already then why did you buy a BMW in the first place? It's a bit late now to be complaining when you knew the vehicle you bought would have stop/start technology - you test drove it, right?
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      06-05-2012, 11:18 AM   #15
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Bogus issue. Totally.
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      06-05-2012, 11:53 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raleedy
Bogus issue. Totally.
Yup. Start stop has been used on the 1 and 3 series for about 5 years now with no known or reported problems.
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      06-05-2012, 01:11 PM   #17
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Those days have gone when frequent starts used to stress the starters, car battery and the drive train. With the use of electronic controls, all those starting stresses are limited to normal values and one need not worry of over heating the starters etc. With this fear gone out of the mind, you use this feature if you like it else disable it.

Do not try to link start/ stop with break in period. BMW does not recommend to change oil at 20 miles or 500 miles or 1000 or 6000. Does this give you a hint on the break in? A clear message is its your car, don't abuse it whether it is first 1000 miles or 50,000. Use it the way you want to use it to have fun. You are not spending $50,000 to garage it all the times.
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      06-05-2012, 03:23 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Chef View Post
So none of the manufacturers who have been offering stop/start technology have done any durability testing to establish wear and tear with the system before they introduced it to the consumer? So they have upgraded components on a whim, just adding expense to the vehicle cost because they felt like it? That they have no concerns about liability and warranty costs? All seems very naive to me.

If you don't trust that BMW did this work already then why did you buy a BMW in the first place? It's a bit late now to be complaining when you knew the vehicle you bought would have stop/start technology - you test drove it, right?
I bought a BMW because I have a love affair with BMW dating back 20 years. I admit my BMW bias and often find the nit picking that takes place on this forum rather annoying. I will likely never buy another brand for myself or my wife, does that clear it up?

That said, the issue I raised is a legitimate technical concern. Of course I understand BMW fully tests its products before production. My concern is that many manufacturers these days are scrambling to meet imposed efficiency standards by 2016. As such features like start/stop seem to be added to bring down the manufacturers overall consumption numbers.

How else does one explain a $150,000 Porsche 911 S including this feature? Or the fact Ferrari is planning a hybrid? What percentage of cars on the road are Ferraris? Will efficiency increases of Ferraris or Porsches have a meaningful global impact on greenhouse gases or pollution? Doubtful. Clearly these measures are taken to meet the upcoming "standards". Start/stop on a Porsche is utterly absurd.

This brings me to my point. Has tacking these features on to great vehicles really been thought through? Perhaps the default should have been off with the option to switch it on for those who love this technology. Furthermore I am not thrilled about the idea that 2013 is the first year the X3 sees this feature and I am the lucky guinea pig. As stated I love BMW and I also know that being an early adopter with this brand can bite you. Anyone that argues that their 2011 X3 is the same vehicle as a 2013 is dreaming. The issues are well documented on this forum i.e. throttle delay amongst many others. Most of those kinks are worked out now. Perhaps start/stop will be a great feature in 2015, but for the time being it is an obtrusive, unnecessary, disconcerting pain in the ass that may cause unnecessary engine and component wear particularly during the break in period.
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      06-05-2012, 03:53 PM   #19
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The simply fact is this technology is not new and has been around for 5 years. It's just not been offered to litigious US consumers before, for reasons that should be obvious. So you're not a guinea pig by any stretch of the imagination.

In Europe the reasons for stop/start on Porsche's is - surprise, surprise - fuel is actually expensive, and if you run a 911 the fuel costs will bite. You also have the social pressure from green parties to tax cars like 911's out of existence. So a simple bit of stop/start technology will keep the wolf from the economic an environmental doors for al little bit longer.
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      06-05-2012, 04:09 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F25er View Post

That said, the issue I raised is a legitimate technical concern. Of course I understand BMW fully tests its products before production. My concern is that many manufacturers these days are scrambling to meet imposed efficiency standards by 2016. As such features like start/stop seem to be added to bring down the manufacturers overall consumption numbers.
You still haven't answered if Porsche states in the manual not to use start/stop during break-in or it's just coming from that particular dealer. If it's the latter I wouldn't put any weight on what one dealer said vs the manufacturers.
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      06-05-2012, 07:04 PM   #21
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Because...,, if it isn't in the manual it can't be true. Manufacturers are always so forthcoming about everything! The manual is a tell all.

Was BMW forthcoming about throttle lag? Were they forthcoming about the 28i moving to the N20? The 28i N52 crowd got screwed with that "placeholder" engine IMHO.

I'm sure if start/ stop reduces component life by a certain percentage and BMW is aware if it they will surely and gladly report it in the manual. I'm sure they'll say " we have this really great new technology in your car... but please don't use it for 2000km because we happen to know it will wreck your motor."

As far as this technology being around for five years, it seems rather unrefined and lacks smoothness for a longstanding technology. Let me see it prove itself in the harsh Canadian climate. It stays off. Period.
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      06-05-2012, 09:45 PM   #22
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It's the Porsche dealership who mentioned about the break-in procedure not the manufacturer...may be the dealer is trying to be over cautious since it's a fairly new technology for Porsche and mechanics might not know how to fix if it broke within 100 miles.

Most importantly the engine in porsche is in wrong place
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