[martin mustang]

We are very puzzled by the difference in quality between our F10 and X3 both 2011, as if quality is related to the location the car was produced, the X3 is our 1st BMW produced away from Germany and 1st X model and boy this car is certainly not what we expected from BMW, 1st we had some transmission problem was fixed with a software update, the car from day one every time you opened the windows the bang and I say bang from the rubber letting the glass go is so bad it use to wake the kids a sleep in the back seat, no lubricant did the job and still on 3 years on, the driver speaker randomly goes off dealer told us they change it, not sure since the issue is still happening. The alloys needed all replacement following corrosion around the BMW logo, thank god BMW did the job for free as it took place after the 3 year warranty expired, and yesterday after starting the car the revers light fault message come up I checked the lights all fine, and no message on the idrive, the only explanation for that was the fact that I just closed the boot/trunk somehow disturbed the rear light, pure crazy crap if this is the case.
The brakes are a complete joke when compared to the F10, expected to be better for an AWD car.

We planned to upgrade to the new X5 but with the X3 experience my wife is not that convinced any more with the X cars quality! and may consider going back to 3 series touring!

[Jordster]

You bought a first-year model from a German car company from a new factory and you're surprised by the lack of bullet-proof reliability?

[AbleDanger]

I'd be a liar if I said that I didn't wonder if my 2015 X3 would meet the same standards as my Germany-made 2014 328d. Only time will tell, I suppose. I am certain that the people in the plant in SC do wonderful work, but after I lived in SC for 17 years there's that part of me that's *very* glad automated processes do a lot of the work at the Spartanburg plant. It's the fit and finish that make me wonder - BMW's attention to detail.

[VinX3]

X3 is my 1st BMW. I drove the 3 series loaner and noticed the overall quality on the 3 series is better. I guess it's because the 3 series is their bread and butter sedan. When I close the door, the 3 series makes a nice, solid thud, not so much with the X3. Some other things I noticed too.

[gIzzE]

I would pull your bulb, the filament often breaks and wiggles around, hence you get a connection sometimes. I bulb out at 4 years old is not the end of the world.

I think you just got a Friday afternoon car by the sounds of things, and it won't be the speaker it will be a dry joint on the head unit imho.

Have you put gummi pflege on the window seals?

[The X Men]

Originally Posted by VinX3

X3 is my 1st BMW. I drove the 3 series loaner and noticed the overall quality on the 3 series is better. I guess it's because the 3 series is their bread and butter sedan. When I close the door, the 3 series makes a nice, solid thud, not so much with the X3. Some other things I noticed too.

The sound when a door close, the material on a car and reliability of the car are all design related, very little to do with workmanship. Like someone mentioned earlier, most of the assembly process is automated which leaves very little room for human error, quality control is the same rather if its in Germany or SC.

[Jordster]

For what it's worth, Consumer Reports says the 2nd gen X3 has become more reliable with each model year.

(However, that could also mean some problems just haven't had enough time to surface yet...)

[bagekko]

I had the same US vs Germany build quality opinions on my X3 versus other BMWs. DK if they are true/accurate, but one thing I thought of is if they are using diff suppliers for some parts than they would of if it was made in Germany. Just got a 2012 X5 so will be interesting to see if my suspicions of the X3 are the same. Though my 2000 Z3 built in USA is solid, but they had lots of issues with the first Z3s made here.

[Pitiful Old Man]

Luck of the draw. Our 2011 35i with nearly every option, picked up in March 2011, has been pretty much flawless and is going strong at 43K miles.

Would be interesting to know what BMW knows. Are certain combinations of options more likely to cause user-reported problems, are such problems more likely when making a change on the production line or with a supplier, etc. Or is it all due to the inevitable variations in the thousands of parts making up the vehicle?

Does BMW track issues, identify patterns and problem areas, and make corrections? Would be fascinating to be "on the inside" of a modern automobile manufacturer to see how they address this critical part of the business and if there are big differences in approach by, say, Toyota, and BMW.

[JSY]

I am on my 4th X3.. 2007, 2009, 2012, 2015... My 2012 was the only one that had to be taken back to the dealer for some maintenance, though still not a huge deal. One of the windows would not go all the way down and a really squeaky chair. Otherwise, was fine. My 2015 so far no issues at all (fingers crossed). My first gen 2007 and 2009 did not give me any major issues but it did experience that acceleration hesitation from time to time that many people have talked about.

I'm generally been very happy with my X3s.

Don't all X3s come with 4 yrs maintenance? Why wouldn't a 2011 still be covered?

[guyver626]

I have to agree with it being luck of the draw and it being one of the earlier years. The 2013 I had must have been made on a Friday 5pm! First month I had park sensor issues. On and off the error would pop up. Never got that checked out as it would work by the time I made it to dealer.

Then by month 4 had some serious transmission issues.

The 2014 I currently own had been flawless. (Knock on wood). Only small issue is the weatherstripping on the back left door is slightly cracked. Dealer already noted it and I may get it replaced before the 4 yrs are up if it gets worse.

I will have to seriously consider if I want to keep this car after my 100k 7yr platinum warranty is up. But for now it's been a blast to drive.

[Ultbruin]

Originally Posted by JSY

Don't all X3s come with 4 yrs maintenance? Why wouldn't a 2011 still be covered?

Maintenance, warranty likely different for Ireland.

[Roundown]

Originally Posted by VinX3

X3 is my 1st BMW. I drove the 3 series loaner and noticed the overall quality on the 3 series is better. I guess it's because the 3 series is their bread and butter sedan. When I close the door, the 3 series makes a nice, solid thud, not so much with the X3. Some other things I noticed too.

You think the F30 3 Series is quality? Having owned a few E46s and E90s, I am befuddled by this comment.

As for those questioning build quality, Spartanburg is one of BMW's most productive (thanks in part to a more competitive labor market), technologically-advanced (recent, $1b+ investment) and soon to be largest plant... all of which is reflected in its company leading QC performance. To be clear, I have no affiliation to BMW or their plant in Spartanburg, but I am so compelled to point out the err in this type of comment.

In similar threads, I often appreciate the comparison to Apple. Apple products aren't without fault, but are broadly considered to be 'high quality'. It's worth remembering that while Apple products are designed in the US, they're manufactured in China. It's Apple's investment in product and process engineering (high levels of automation) as well as a stringent QC process that creates the perception (and often reality) that their products are in a class of their own.

[Ryno 27]

No issues with my 3.5 Msport. Actually very pleased and impressed.

[martin mustang]

Originally Posted by cSurf

You think the F30 3 Series is quality? Having owned a few E46s and E90s, I am befuddled by this comment.

As for those questioning build quality, Spartanburg is one of BMW's most productive (thanks in part to a more competitive labor market), technologically-advanced (recent, $1b+ investment) and soon to be largest plant... all of which is reflected in its company leading QC performance. To be clear, I have no affiliation to BMW or their plant in Spartanburg, but I am so compelled to point out the err in this type of comment.

In similar threads, I often appreciate the comparison to Apple. Apple products aren't without fault, but are broadly considered to be 'high quality'. It's worth remembering that while Apple products are designed in the US, they're manufactured in China. It's Apple's investment in product and process engineering (high levels of automation) as well as a stringent QC process that creates the perception (and often reality) that their products are in a class of their own.

This is our 1st X car and only car produced away from Germany out of the many we had so fare myself and my wife, I do believe the issues are also down to being one of the 1st X3 produced, but never the less the fact my wife moved from 2009 3 series touring and I got my F10 delivered some 3 months after the X3, both cars costing around the same, I do find the X3 way behind in quality, wind noise is the worst I am talking on the basis of E60 and E90, to me having to lubricate window seals on 60k cars is certainly the biggest joke and can only be put down to the quality of the assembly, Ireland has one of the mildest weather around, window seals are not new tech, and now the revers light fault probably triggered by closing the trunk is certainly very worrying, what is more scary the mileage on the X3 is half of our F10 at 31k miles, so yes I am left with the conclusion that it is related to the assembly quality control, don’t get me wrong the only one to blame here is BMW and strong chance management are at fault, plus over all I do believe BMW is heading down the path of Merc, I am great believer on the quantity never helped quality, and model in model out I see more issue with the quality even for German made cars. But the X3 is proving to be in a league of its own.

The bottom line is this, we are simply not sure an X5 from the same assembly line is worth the risks.

[plymjack]

Well you asked the question and got lots of answers. We have had ours nearly 3 years and enjoyed every minute of it. No issues, some minor points quickly sorted by dealer.

Being an SUV you would expect some wind noise due to its size, if doing a little work reduces that then its hardly a joke.
While the brakes might not carbon they are fine, I have not heard of a single RTA sighting X3 brakes as an issue, so again hardly a joke.
You had a spurious warning for a light failure - hardly the end of the world. We had one for the fog lights, which cleared the following day. You do seem to be bigging up some minor issues - when what you have is a very sophisticated car which may not be the best example but is still very capable.

Only you can make your decision - but having had a new X5 loaner for the weekend I know what I would do. Good luck.

[gIzzE]

I had a a few E91s, a 2010 F11 and now have the F25 X3, I have found the X3 better built than the E91s and not far off the F11 with the only exception being the plastics round the cup holder/ash tray area feeling a bit cheap.

We had quite a few niggles with our F11, but it was an early car.


Have you checked the bulb where the warning came up, it tends to tell you for a reason, and it measures resistance, so it might be wise to put a new bulb in if you have been warned by the car that it is on its way out.

Also, you don't know if when your car was PDI'd and cleaned that some young idiot at the dealer din't put detergent over the door seals and take off all the gummi pflege that was on there from the factory.
This is not a new thing with door seals, it has been going on for years, from E46 forums, through to e90 forums and the same on Merc forums, especially those with frameless windows where the glass actually sticks to the rubber when unlocking.
And I reckon 99 times out of 100 it is people using incorrect products on the seals.
BMW were putting felt on the opposite the doors seals to stop creaking from the rubber on the E90, it was a big issue, in the end Gummi Pflege sorted it.

[clivem2]

I had a 2011 X3 and now have a 2015 LCI. The LCI has an improved quality feel to it. It's an small incremental improvement that is down to a few small details which if they'd been present in a 2011 would probably have allayed some of the OP comments. For example:

- the doors close a little better, they don't sound expensive but they don't sound cheap either

- the rear hatch doesn't shut with a clang any more

- the centre console has a much higher quality feel

- wind, traffic and wet road noise is much reduced

- steering and brakes are improved

One aspect that BMW drilled into Rover all those years ago when they bought them is, anything the driver touches must feel high quality (eg the manual gearshift, the switchgear etc). Our perceptions are driven by these things. When I used to work in the industry it was clear that BMW solidness of build under-the-skin wasn't as people thought. They were and are very good at value engineering - taking cost out of parts which we don't normally see. Audi on the other hand used to have their highest quality out of sight but this cost them so they have reduced or eradicated their over-engineering.

The X3 is not that heavy for an SUV, BMW have paired away a lot of weight, this gives it better driving characteristics than a heavier car. If you want heavy then be prepared for a reduction in sportiness of drive.

I've had 3 South African built BMWs, all were fine in terms of build quality. I don't believe Spartenburg is inherently any different. The first product runs of a new car in a new assembly plant are always going to have some issues. For it to take until the LCI to fix most of these is typical for the car industry, new parts and design tweaks don't come along in 6 months.

For those who believe German built BMW are the best, I wonder if you are thinking the assemblers are highly educated and skilled workers? Most of the workers do not come from Germany. The German car industry is strongly supported by a Turkish workforce. They are great workers. Quality though is mainly down to:

- design
- parts quality
- assembly plant management processes
- supervisory skills

Much of the above at Spartenburg will have well tried and tested BMW experience and people (many from Germany) built-in.

[martin mustang]

Originally Posted by plymjack

Well you asked the question and got lots of answers. We have had ours nearly 3 years and enjoyed every minute of it. No issues, some minor points quickly sorted by dealer.

Being an SUV you would expect some wind noise due to its size, if doing a little work reduces that then its hardly a joke.
While the brakes might not carbon they are fine, I have not heard of a single RTA sighting X3 brakes as an issue, so again hardly a joke.
You had a spurious warning for a light failure - hardly the end of the world. We had one for the fog lights, which cleared the following day. You do seem to be bigging up some minor issues - when what you have is a very sophisticated car which may not be the best example but is still very capable.

Only you can make your decision - but having had a new X5 loaner for the weekend I know what I would do. Good luck.

It is a joke when the alloys needed changing after 3 years due to corrosion, it is a joke that one speaker keep switching off and the dealer cannot find the fault, it is a joke when my brake light comes up once and never again a week before our 1st technical control, the dealer will not be able to do anything on the basis that the lights are working and the message no longer on so know is down to luck hopping the car it will not show up again just before the test this week, and the only reason/ explanation I have is the fact we just closed the boot before the light come up! and for the window seals with endless amount of visit to the garage and spraying lubricant and all, you may accept this but with my long history of BMW’s this X3 is certainly a joke nothing short of that! And judging by all the responses looks like it is question of luck, I do not buy a premium car at premium price and hope for the best, it was the reason why I always went for BM’s.

[martin mustang]

Originally Posted by clivem2

I had a 2011 X3 and now have a 2015 LCI. The LCI has an improved quality feel to it. It's an small incremental improvement that is down to a few small details which if they'd been present in a 2011 would probably have allayed some of the OP comments. For example:

- the doors close a little better, they don't sound expensive but they don't sound cheap either

- the rear hatch doesn't shut with a clang any more

- the centre console has a much higher quality feel

- wind, traffic and wet road noise is much reduced

- steering and brakes are improved

One aspect that BMW drilled into Rover all those years ago when they bought them is, anything the driver touches must feel high quality (eg the manual gearshift, the switchgear etc). Our perceptions are driven by these things. When I used to work in the industry it was clear that BMW solidness of build under-the-skin wasn't as people thought. They were and are very good at value engineering - taking cost out of parts which we don't normally see. Audi on the other hand used to have their highest quality out of sight but this cost them so they have reduced or eradicated their over-engineering.

The X3 is not that heavy for an SUV, BMW have paired away a lot of weight, this gives it better driving characteristics than a heavier car. If you want heavy then be prepared for a reduction in sportiness of drive.

I've had 3 South African built BMWs, all were fine in terms of build quality. I don't believe Spartenburg is inherently any different. The first product runs of a new car in a new assembly plant are always going to have some issues. For it to take until the LCI to fix most of these is typical for the car industry, new parts and design tweaks don't come along in 6 months.

For those who believe German built BMW are the best, I wonder if you are thinking the assemblers are highly educated and skilled workers? Most of the workers do not come from Germany. The German car industry is strongly supported by a Turkish workforce. They are great workers. Quality though is mainly down to:

- design
- parts quality
- assembly plant management processes
- supervisory skills

Much of the above at Spartenburg will have well tried and tested BMW experience and people (many from Germany) built-in.

I totally agree with your conclusions, my post was more of a statement of frustration, and also to see if many X cars are of the same, I know for a fact that the old X3 was a mess and was also built by Karman outside BMW hence all the issues yet you hear some folks with less problems with the old one than with the F25, as for your argument on Audi’s I believe they most over-priced premium cars based on the engineering behind them, a timing belt instead of timing chain, costing the same as rear wheel drive Merc’s and BM’s is simply not on, they do share all part with Skoda’s, Seat’s and VW’s priced well below, the one sign of all with the old models was always how VW group regardless if you went for a Lombo, Porsche or Audi never bothered to move the hand brakes to the driver side for us driving on the right hand side, BMW always moved the hand brake to the driver side, this was for me a simple sign of cost cutting from Audi to see it in 911’s was truly shocking.

[clivem2]

Originally Posted by martin mustang

if you went for a Lambo, Porsche or Audi never bothered to move the hand brakes to the driver side for us driving on the right hand side, BMW always moved the hand brake to the driver side, this was for me a simple sign of cost cutting from Audi to see it in 911’s was truly shocking.

Yes I agree...this is an example of Audi (VAG) not thinking about customer perception or valuing the customer so they cut costs in places that to them didn't matter.

BTW I get your frustration. My 2011 has some issues but I could live with them (just). Nothing like yours though. I was still frustrated and caused the BMW regional rep some angst.

[gIzzE]

Originally Posted by martin mustang

It is a joke when the alloys needed changing after 3 years due to corrosion, it is a joke that one speaker keep switching off and the dealer cannot find the fault, it is a joke when my brake light comes up once and never again a week before our 1st technical control, the dealer will not be able to do anything on the basis that the lights are working and the message no longer on so know is down to luck hopping the car it will not show up again just before the test this week, and the only reason/ explanation I have is the fact we just closed the boot before the light come up! and for the window seals with endless amount of visit to the garage and spraying lubricant and all, you may accept this but with my long history of BMW’s this X3 is certainly a joke nothing short of that! And judging by all the responses looks like it is question of luck, I do not buy a premium car at premium price and hope for the best, it was the reason why I always went for BM’s.

I reckon it sounds more like you have a crap dealer.

Three very easy faults to rectify to keep you happy that they are not doing.