[mole7374]

Originally Posted by juddholland

New Jersey was only denoting that their corporate offices are there. If they were in Spartanburg with the plant, then I'd have written Spartanburg. If in Chicago....and so on and so on. Not tryna hate on your home.

I know....I'm only bustin b@lls!!! lmao classic

[xDrive35i]

Originally Posted by mole7374

I ended up going to bed before I read the remainnig posts last night, but great post MM....totally agree with you. I mean electronic systems are good b/c they react quickly and they avoid having to add any additional weight, but IMHO they cannot do what mechanical systems do...how many rally cars (that win) have total electronic setups? I still don't understand the "sport suspension delete" thing for the m-sport US models....what do they put back on and why is that different than the "regular" non-M models? Do they put on an even sportier suspension? Very strange I guess.

And look I think x-drive is a fine system...it really is, however like you said, when you start "faking out" enough stuff (like the poor mans torque vectoring factor you point out) eventually you hit a wall...that being said, for just about every x-drive owner in just about every situation, x-drive will run like a champ.

AWD conversations are near and dear to me as a subaru enthusiast and STI owner....and I can tell you that if you ever want to see some crazy obsessive people, go out to an STI board and read the crap that gets thrown around about other AWD systems...some of it is spot on, a lot of it is crazy flaming, but the bottom line is this....when you put in mechanical LSD and a multi-plate transfer clutch, and a planetary-gear-type center differential,...and oh yea don't forget the limited-slip helical front and Torsen rear differential.... you can just achieve things that electronic systems can never do.

That being said though...BMW has ended up selling A LOT more cars over the years b/c of the fact that they introduced X-Drive....now that is either good engineering or great marketing!!

Speaking of that transfer clutch. Electronics fail. Mine did, sort of. So did Lotus7's. So have hundreds of other owners who don't post here. Pattern anyone?

[mole7374]

Originally Posted by juddholland

Speaking of that transfer clutch. Electronics fail. Mine did, sort of. So did Lotus7's. So have hundreds of other owners who don't post here. Pattern anyone?

yea

[mole7374]

Originally Posted by juddholland

I do enjoy xDrive, but it's not my favorite 4x4 system. It is a sportier 4x4 system with a 40/60 power split f/r with driving dynamics closer to a sports car but the capabilities as a 4x4 system are not up to scratch with Audi and Land Rover, for example. We have to give BMW credit, though--given how late in the game they were to introducing a 4x4 system--for being able to turn their company into almost half xDrive vehicles that do sell very well.

I hear ya and agree on all points for sure.... the crazy thing is though that most....probably 90+% of the AWD owning public have no idea really how AWD works. I got into an argument once with my brother-in-law over the fact this he thought his wife's honda CRV had the same AWD capabilities of my subaru...then I showed him a test lab video of cars like the CRV/Rav4/chevy etc on rollers and not able to do a dam thing b/c the spinning fronts could not transfer power. And I think 1/2 of the subaru owners out there think that AWD for subaru means that all wheels are getting power all the time (like in a truck with locking differentials etc...) obviously not the case..and in fact look how complicated it can be...subaru has 4 different implementations of their own AWD system depending on the car/drivetrain setup: http://drive2.subaru.com/Win09/Win09_ItsWhatMakes.htm
And on top of that....the STI is completely customizable per the driver...crazy!
And let's continue...on top of that cars lilke the Nissan GTR or Mitso EVO get completely overlooked (by most) b/c they are not nice friendly every day driver cars like a subie or BMW or Audi...however on the track these cars would torch most others b/c the systems are so wildly superior. I have a hard time posting this link but take a look...it really shows the unbelievable awesome power of the EVO....

I totally would have bought one but I'm way to loyal to my Subie!

[xDrive35i]

Originally Posted by mole7374

I hear ya and agree on all points for sure.... the crazy thing is though that most....probably 90+% of the AWD owning public have no idea really how AWD works. I got into an argument once with my brother-in-law over the fact this he thought his wife's honda CRV had the same AWD capabilities of my subaru...then I showed him a test lab video of cars like the CRV/Rav4/chevy etc on rollers and not able to do a dam thing b/c the spinning fronts could not transfer power. And I think 1/2 of the subaru owners out there think that AWD for subaru means that all wheels are getting power all the time (like in a truck with locking differentials etc...) obviously not the case..and in fact look how complicated it can be...subaru has 4 different implementations of their own AWD system depending on the car/drivetrain setup: http://drive2.subaru.com/Win09/Win09_ItsWhatMakes.htm
And on top of that....the STI is completely customizable per the driver...crazy!
And let's continue...on top of that cars lilke the Nissan GTR or Mitso EVO get completely overlooked (by most) b/c they are not nice friendly every day driver cars like a subie or BMW or Audi...however on the track these cars would torch most others b/c the systems are so wildly superior. I have a hard time posting this link but take a look...it really shows the unbelievable awesome power of the EVO....

I totally would have bought one but I'm way to loyal to my Subie!

I LOVE top gear.

[mole7374]

Originally Posted by juddholland

I LOVE top gear.

Effin awesome video...

[Bimar]

Originally Posted by juddholland

I do enjoy xDrive, but it's not my favorite 4x4 system. It is a sportier 4x4 system with a 40/60 power split f/r with driving dynamics closer to a sports car but the capabilities as a 4x4 system are not up to scratch with Audi .

Fantastic thread, everything make sense on DHP etc except for this comment, not convinced Quattro is better than the new xDrive, Landrover yes.

[Bimar]

Originally Posted by juddholland

I LOVE top gear.

+1, even though we all know most of it is staged these days...like WWE wrestling!

[mole7374]

Originally Posted by inamik75

Fantastic thread, everything make sense on DHP etc except for this comment, not convinced Quattro is better than the new xDrive, Landrover yes.

I agree that this thread was effin awesome...the info we hashed out has probably resuled is all of us knowing more about DHP/SAP etc than 99% of the BMW dealers in the country!!
I also think I agree with you, however Audi's system is pretty d@m good....that being said, I think what BMW has done with their x-drive over the past decade is amazing, and I'd agree that what they achieve in a non-mechanicaly controlled system may be superior to Audi..I believe Audi has a new Quattro coming out so the debate will roll on...right now I like x-drive I have to say.

However...and unfortunately I'm so biased with AWD that I end up making more enemies than friends with AWD conversations... BMW will never be in the class of a EVO, STI or GT-R...and I'm not sure it is supposed to, but the experience in an STI or EVO is such a monumential difference comparied to x-drive that it isn't fair. And unfortunately most people would never experience this b/c unless you are driving one of these cars around a track, the differences will not become so obvious. (like in this video) I've had the amazing opty to be able to drive my STI around Lime Rock (in CT) and I can tell you that once you take a car like that around a track like that you view of AWD changes...and yes I've taken x-drive cars (335xi) around Lime Rock and it would be like a cyclist trying to win the tour de france on a BMX bike. Sorry I hate to flame but my experiences just make me biased. I wish we could all get together for a day, rent a track and an EVO....some of us would look like this: and others like this:

[Bimar]

Originally Posted by mole7374

I agree that this thread was effin awesome...the info we hashed out has probably resuled is all of us knowing more about DHP/SAP etc than 99% of the BMW dealers in the country!!
I also think I agree with you, however Audi's system is pretty d@m good....that being said, I think what BMW has done with their x-drive over the past decade is amazing, and I'd agree that what they achieve in a non-mechanicaly controlled system may be superior to Audi..I believe Audi has a new Quattro coming out so the debate will roll on...right now I like x-drive I have to say.

However...and unfortunately I'm so biased with AWD that I end up making more enemies than friends with AWD conversations... BMW will never be in the class of a EVO, STI or GT-R...and I'm not sure it is supposed to, but the experience in an STI or EVO is such a monumential difference comparied to x-drive that it isn't fair. And unfortunately most people would never experience this b/c unless you are driving one of these cars around a track, the differences will not become so obvious. (like in this video) I've had the amazing opty to be able to drive my STI around Lime Rock (in CT) and I can tell you that once you take a car like that around a track like that you view of AWD changes...and yes I've taken x-drive cars (335xi) around Lime Rock and it would be like a cyclist trying to win the tour de france on a BMX bike. Sorry I hate to flame but my experiences just make me biased. I wish we could all get together for a day, rent a track and an EVO....some of us would look like this: and others like this:

my household is a Subaru and BMW ship, for subaru i only go up to the forester turbo(not STI) STI and EVO are for mad people with a death wish, scares the jeepers out of me whenever i have driven one.

[mole7374]

Originally Posted by inamik75

my household is a Subaru and BMW ship, for subaru i only go up to the forester turbo(not STI) STI and EVO are for mad people with a death wish, scares the jeepers out of me whenever i have driven one.

I love the Subie/BMW household combos!! The forester turbo is loads of fun too...not sure why subie is cutting the turbo out of the outback/foresters...big bummer.

Hey I'm quite normal!!! The mad factor only comes in play every so often...you know with type A people there's a thin line between fear and fun!

True funny story for you.....
So my brother has a stick shift older nissan sentra ...1.8...very safe car to learn stick in so I borrowed it for a weekend to teach my wife...all went well and she actually did well. So one day she wakes up and says "you know what...driving the stick in your brother's car was fun, maybe if you want I'll try the STI today..I mean I did good in your brother's car". True quote and exact...now the err of my ways was that all I hear out of my wife's mouth was "try the STI today". The kids happened to be at my in-laws so I grabbed the keys like we were two teenagers dating and said "LET'S GO" So dummy me, in my excitement, I wasn't thinking of the obvious... I start the drive, showing her everything and remind her of everything and I drive to an area that will make her feel 'safe' as there's not a lot of traffic and the roads are nice and open. So....what happens?....the test drive lasted all of 3 gears and about 30 seconds. (with most of the 30 seconds cruising to a stop). Obviously the 1.8 sentra has a slightly different feel so what does she do....she starts the STI off nice off the line, but proceeds to punch it and she starts to scream...I say "get off the gas or shift" (dumb @ss me didn't say brake)..so what does she do....she shifts and proceeds to stomp on the gas pedal like her foot was stuck to the pedal (to this day I can't figure out if she power shifted but I think she did...pretty cool actually). As we get well out of second gear she starts to say "Dave what do I do???" and I watch the needle get into speeds that I realize have a point of no return. I yell "STOP" and she proceeds to take her foot off the gas and stomp the brake like she was the gas....after about 2.3 seconds I have I say "TAKE YOUR FOOT OF THE BRAKE!!!" (thank God she didn't go back to the gas) I then have her prss the clutch and we just coasted to a stop that way.

Needless to say, that was the first and only time she's ever driven the car.....

[corey2140]

What happens if you get the 35i without SAP or DHP? Do you still get the option of choosing Normal, Sport or Sport+? or does it not come with that option?

[Want the thrill]

Originally Posted by corey2140

What happens if you get the 35i without SAP or DHP? Do you still get the option of choosing Normal, Sport or Sport+? or does it not come with that option?

If you get the 35i without the sport activity package, you do not get the normal, sport, sport + modes.

[jaybert]

Originally Posted by corey2140

What happens if you get the 35i without SAP or DHP? Do you still get the option of choosing Normal, Sport or Sport+? or does it not come with that option?

what does 3.5 w/ SAP and no DHP give you? My idrive has drivetrain and chassis for sports mode configuration. What does the chassis setting do given i dont have DHP?

[clarence]

Originally Posted by jaybert

what does 3.5 w/ SAP and no DHP give you? My idrive has drivetrain and chassis for sports mode configuration. What does the chassis setting do given i dont have DHP?

Notice that BMW has been VERY CAREFUL with their wordings. It said "chassis" setting & not "suspension" setting. Chassis setting is anything that alters handling characteristics, mainly stability control settings & also steering assistance.

[Toecutter]

Originally Posted by mole7374

True funny story for you.....
So my brother has a stick shift older nissan sentra ...1.8...very safe car to learn stick in so I borrowed it for a weekend to teach my wife...all went well and she actually did well. So one day she wakes up and says "you know what...driving the stick in your brother's car was fun, maybe if you want I'll try the STI today..I mean I did good in your brother's car". True quote and exact...now the err of my ways was that all I hear out of my wife's mouth was "try the STI today". The kids happened to be at my in-laws so I grabbed the keys like we were two teenagers dating and said "LET'S GO" So dummy me, in my excitement, I wasn't thinking of the obvious... I start the drive, showing her everything and remind her of everything and I drive to an area that will make her feel 'safe' as there's not a lot of traffic and the roads are nice and open. So....what happens?....the test drive lasted all of 3 gears and about 30 seconds. (with most of the 30 seconds cruising to a stop). Obviously the 1.8 sentra has a slightly different feel so what does she do....she starts the STI off nice off the line, but proceeds to punch it and she starts to scream...I say "get off the gas or shift" (dumb @ss me didn't say brake)..so what does she do....she shifts and proceeds to stomp on the gas pedal like her foot was stuck to the pedal (to this day I can't figure out if she power shifted but I think she did...pretty cool actually). As we get well out of second gear she starts to say "Dave what do I do???" and I watch the needle get into speeds that I realize have a point of no return. I yell "STOP" and she proceeds to take her foot off the gas and stomp the brake like she was the gas....after about 2.3 seconds I have I say "TAKE YOUR FOOT OF THE BRAKE!!!" (thank God she didn't go back to the gas) I then have her prss the clutch and we just coasted to a stop that way.

Needless to say, that was the first and only time she's ever driven the car.....

I just wanted to let you know that both my wife and I just had HUGE laugh reading your story. Good stuff!!!