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      09-15-2011, 12:12 PM   #23
greg2step
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Thanks WantTheThrill - thats the best explanation i've seen yet. I'm still happy w/ my choice to get DHP.
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      09-15-2011, 02:11 PM   #24
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Read here about DHP

Judd Holland has written the seminal work on SAP, M-Sport, and DHP.

The simple answer is that if you don't have DHP nothing changes on your suspension regardless of what you do with the button, because there's nothing to change.

http://x3.xbimmers.com/forums/showth...highlight=judd
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      09-15-2011, 02:40 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Chef View Post
Judd Holland has written the seminal work on SAP, M-Sport, and DHP.

The simple answer is that if you don't have DHP nothing changes on your suspension regardless of what you do with the button, because there's nothing to change.

http://x3.xbimmers.com/forums/showth...highlight=judd
And as an owner that can easily FEEL the difference, that is not correct. IT DOES CHANGE AND UNLESS YOU OWN A 35i without DHP you wouldn't know. DHP adds an additional piece to the equation that makes it even better than the standard SAP. I think with DHP bumps are handled better and the chassis is more responsive to the vehicles every move.
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      09-15-2011, 02:42 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by greg2step View Post
Thanks WantTheThrill - thats the best explanation i've seen yet. I'm still happy w/ my choice to get DHP.
I think you will be happy as it gives you that extra variable above and beyond what standard SAP gives you.
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      09-15-2011, 02:45 PM   #27
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I am happy - DHP with sport mode set for chasis only - and the 18" tires is what i want- and when i drive down the road to work that has 50 years of transit bus created potholes i will set it back to normal. unfortunately I have to drive down that road every day to work. The good thing is the X3 is alot smoother on these bumps than my 328xi was.
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      09-15-2011, 02:53 PM   #28
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Here is a perfect description of what DHP does that the SAP with sport mode will not do:

(From BMW website):

Uneven roads, potholes, cobblestones or flawless tarmac – with DHP there is now a chassis for every road and every driving style.

A control unit on each wheel evaluates movements four hundred times a second and adjusts the shock absorbers accordingly. The electronics system works so fast that when the front wheels encounter a pothole, information is sent to the rear wheels so that sufficient cushioning is in place. The rebound and compression damping are continually and independently set.


So those who get DHP have this + the different modes (normal, sport, sport +), while those of us who have the SAP with normal, sport and sport + do not have this added benefit. I really hope we can put this topic to rest. It has been argued over a least a zillion times! Ugh!
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      09-15-2011, 03:02 PM   #29
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Sorry but we've been through this many times before. The damping rates without DHP are fixed. You can press any button you like but the damping rate won't change.
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      09-15-2011, 03:16 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Le Chef View Post
Sorry but we've been through this many times before. The damping rates without DHP are fixed. You can press any button you like but the damping rate won't change.
I think you are missing the point Le Chef. Next time I'm in Chicago I'll take you for a ride in my X and when your teeth chatter when I'm in Sport Mode I'll say "I told you so". No doubt DHP would make those bumps feel a whole lot better. Even my friggin kids know when I put it in sport mode. They can be completely absorbed in their IPods and I'll switch modes and 2 seconds later they are saying "It feels like a brick back here....why'd you have to put it in sports mode again"?? They don't like riding in the back when I have it on because you do feel EVERYTHING in the road. Normal mode tones it down considerably. I'm done trying to get those with DHP to understand what it feels like to change modes in a 35i with SAP and no DHP. For those of us who have it, we know and that's all that matters.
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      09-15-2011, 04:18 PM   #31
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This is my favourite topic

I don't doubt the suspension feels different in Sport (definitely not after reading WTT's description) but I'm still interested to know how it works if you don't have DHP and have it set to change the chassis settings. What is at actually changing mechanically? Where's Lotus when you need him?!
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      09-15-2011, 04:30 PM   #32
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Seems like the drive system might be working differently in Sport mode:

Performance Control

Performance Control enhances the agility of
your vehicle.

To enhance performance during sporty driving,
the rear wheel on the inside of the curve is
braked while the resulting braking effect is
largely compensated by engine intervention.
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      09-15-2011, 04:41 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clivem2 View Post
Seems like the drive system might be working differently in Sport mode:

Performance Control

Performance Control enhances the agility of
your vehicle.

To enhance performance during sporty driving,
the rear wheel on the inside of the curve is
braked while the resulting braking effect is
largely compensated by engine intervention.
Although they may complement each other, perf control and sport mode aren't linked. I have perf control and sports suspension but no sport/sport+ modes (no DDC)
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      09-15-2011, 05:04 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sfax View Post
This is my favourite topic

I don't doubt the suspension feels different in Sport (definitely not after reading WTT's description) but I'm still interested to know how it works if you don't have DHP and have it set to change the chassis settings. What is at actually changing mechanically? Where's Lotus when you need him?!
This is my favourite topic too

This confusion is going to persist until BMW more clearly defines what dhp does on the website (and this definition matches people's experieince).

I'm interested in a usa x35i with SAP. On the BMW website it says that for this configuration DHP adds:

Dynamic Handling Package $1,400

• Variable sport steering

Continuously adjusts the steering ratio and steering force to suit the changing driving situation. The steering ratio is adjusted depending on the steering movement. You can enjoy increased agility on winding roads, more safety at higher speeds, and great flexibility when parking.

• Performance Control

Maintains a rear-wheel-drive-oriented torque split, for sportier handling and responsiveness.

No mention of damper or suspension settings so my confusion continues..
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      09-15-2011, 05:14 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sfax View Post
Although they may complement each other, perf control and sport mode aren't linked. I have perf control and sports suspension but no sport/sport+ modes (no DDC)
I won't pretend that I'm not confused.

How do you engage Performance Control on your F25, it is via the iDrive?

I don't have DDC but I do have an MSport with sports suspension. I have Sport and Sport+ modes but of course no damper setting to change. How is my set up different to yours?
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      09-15-2011, 07:28 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsprague View Post
This is my favourite topic too

This confusion is going to persist until BMW more clearly defines what dhp does on the website (and this definition matches people's experieince).

I'm interested in a usa x35i with SAP. On the BMW website it says that for this configuration DHP adds:

Dynamic Handling Package $1,400

• Variable sport steering

Continuously adjusts the steering ratio and steering force to suit the changing driving situation. The steering ratio is adjusted depending on the steering movement. You can enjoy increased agility on winding roads, more safety at higher speeds, and great flexibility when parking.

• Performance Control

Maintains a rear-wheel-drive-oriented torque split, for sportier handling and responsiveness.

No mention of damper or suspension settings so my confusion continues..
yes, but if you add DHP to your X3 (2011 or 2012) then Dynamic Damper Control shows up as an option N/C. if you take DHP away, the N/C DDC goes with it. but they don't list it under the package when you select the DHP package... very confusing.
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      09-15-2011, 07:58 PM   #37
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You think they just messed up the site? I wouldn't have paid all that money for DHP if the most important part, the dynamic suspension was no longer there.
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      09-15-2011, 08:02 PM   #38
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no i think they have really confused it beyond the site. From my order sheet to my sticker, DDC is listed as N/C separate from DHP - but they are linked and can not be separated.

the more i drive my X3, i say get DHP. however the guy who is trading in the Ford Explorer might not need it.
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      09-15-2011, 08:15 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greg2step View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Want the thrill View Post
Just to add you can do this as well if you have the Sport Activity package without DHP on the 35i.
not sure I follow - without DHP you don't have Dynamic Damper Control or the Variable Sport steering. I beleive when the sport mode config for chasis is controlling both of these. If i turn on sport mode and its set for chasis or chasis drivetrain both of those features should be turned on.

Drivetrain should control sport mode on the transmission - if its set for drivetrain only or chasis drivetrain.

how is this sport mode on the transmission different from sport mode turned on by moving the shift lever to the left?

Anyway I have set my sport mode button to chasis only - so I get DDC and Var. Sport Steering, but normal mode for the transmission. If i want sport mode on the transmission i will get it from the shift lever.

If you have an X3 with SAP or M sport but NOT DHP then do you still have the sport mode button? i would think if so it only controls drivetrain...unless I'm missing something here.

back to the original point of this thread, get DHP, i much prefer the drive with it now that i've set it for chasis only.
FOR EVERYONE HENCEFORTH:

MOVING THE SHIFT LEVER OVER INTO DS DOES NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES REPLICATE THE DRIVETRAIN BEHAVIOR OF SPORT/SPORT DRIVETRAIN SETTINGS. Moving the shift lever over does somewhat change shift points and throttle response, but SPORT/SPORT exhibit more dramatic changes in shift points and throttle response AND the switch also changes SHIFT RESPONSE (how long it takes the transmission to switch from one gear to the next once the driver or the computer decides it is time to shift). This shift response can be exhibited while driving in SPORT/SPORT if the transmission is set to D, DS, or M. It matters not when in Drivetrain SPORT. Again: NORMAL in D, DS, and M is not the same thing as D, DS, and M in SPORT/SPORT .

I wrote a thread about this months ago. Someone go find it and BUMP it so this question can be put to rest.

Chassis settings are also explained in that thread. I know the thread seems to discuss the DHP/SAP/M configurations only, but my descriptions of the different settings are clear.

Sorry for the rant. I'm mad that BMW fails to make this clear. It's hardly an intuitive subject.
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      09-15-2011, 08:20 PM   #40
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[QUOTE=Le Chef;10427134]Judd Holland has written the seminal work on SAP, M-Sport, and DHP.

The simple answer is that if you don't have DHP nothing changes on your suspension regardless of what you do with the button, because there's nothing to change.

[url]http://x3.xbimmers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=532984
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      09-15-2011, 08:24 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greg2step View Post
yes, but if you add DHP to your X3 (2011 or 2012) then Dynamic Damper Control shows up as an option N/C. if you take DHP away, the N/C DDC goes with it. but they don't list it under the package when you select the DHP package... very confusing.
This is from the 2012 changes post.
ZDH - Dynamic Handling Package (xDrive28i / xDrive35i) - $1,400
-- Dynamic Damper Control
-- Performance Control
-- Variable sport steering
* In combination with ZMP - $1,300
This is from the updated BMWUSA site.
Dynamic Handling Package ($1,400)
• Variable sport steering
• Performance Control
Greg is right, Dynamic Damper Control is missing from the package now.
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      09-15-2011, 08:49 PM   #42
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Unfortunatly, Juddholland does not work for BMW so while his explanation is detailed, it doesn't explain why when using sport mode with no dhp and sap on a 35i makes the steering change to a heavier, tighter mode and without question, bumps are felt waaaay more than in normal mode. Looks like I'm now going to have to take Le Chef and Juddholland for a spin when I'm back in Chicago. Either that, or maybe I should guess at what having DHP feels like and let them know how their vehicle responds without having that option myself. That is what it boils down to. Unless you are driving a 35i without DHP and have felt the change in Sport Mode, you are just offering an opinion based on what you read, not what you are actually feeling when you drive it. This is
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      09-15-2011, 08:58 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Want the thrill View Post
Unfortunatly, Juddholland does not work for BMW so while his explanation is detailed, it doesn't explain why when using sport mode with no dhp and sap on a 35i makes the steering change to a heavier, tighter mode and without question, bumps are felt waaaay more than in normal mode. Looks like I'm now going to have to take Le Chef and Juddholland for a spin when I'm back in Chicago. Either that, or maybe I should guess at what having DHP feels like and let them know how their vehicle responds without having that option myself. That is what it boils down to. Unless you are driving a 35i without DHP and have felt the change in Sport Mode, you are just offering an opinion based on what you read, not what you are actually feeling when you drive it. This is
I was in no way invalidating what you may be experiencing. The explanation was only regarding Drivetrain settings. I'll swing by the ol' dealer at some point and see what they have in terms of demos.
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      09-15-2011, 09:12 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by juddholland View Post
I was in no way invalidating what you may be experiencing. The explanation was only regarding Drivetrain settings. I'll swing by the ol' dealer at some point and see what they have in terms of demos.
Ok, thanks Juddholland! Since you have DHP, I'd love for you to take a drive in the 35i with SAP and no DHP so you can confirm I am not losing my mind. I wonder how different they feel? DHP HAS to feel better going over bumps than just the SAP package. Everyone that rides with me when I have it in sport mode doesn't like it because it is to "harsh".
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