02-07-2011, 02:53 PM | #1 |
Private
13
Rep 58
Posts |
Keyless entry?
I have ordered the access pack which includes keyless entry and exit.
How is the car unlocked? Is it, as you approach the car or do you have to pull on the door handle to unlock? Likewise locking, do you just walk away from the car? Thanks |
02-07-2011, 02:57 PM | #2 |
Private First Class
11
Rep 160
Posts |
When you place your hand on the door handle, the car will unlock. To lock, there is ~1 inch square spot on the handle that you touch with a finger.
You must have the key on your person... |
Appreciate
0
|
02-07-2011, 03:19 PM | #4 |
Lieutenant
73
Rep 532
Posts |
Sorry to depress you but you might want to read the Sunday Times article from yesterday on how crooks are cloning these systems to steal cars where proximity both unlocks the car and also enables ignition. Clever. Rare. Worrying.
|
Appreciate
0
|
02-07-2011, 03:49 PM | #6 | |
Brigadier General
91
Rep 3,855
Posts |
Quote:
I might be wrong but I think the only difference between the access package and a normal X3 (which is also keyless start) is that you don't have to press a button on the key to unlock and lock the car. The key still transmits a signal to unlock the car, and I'm not sure how it would be any more secure without the access package. Ultimately a professional thief could, in theory, intercept any unlock signal, and then reproduce it to unlock the car later. If they designed the access package properly it could be more secure by only looking for a key a few feet away each time the door handle is touched. In contrast you can normally unlock a car using a remote key from 20m+ away, which would be easier for someone to intercept. I haven't ordered the access package but wish I had in hindsight. Would like to read the article in question though.
__________________
F25 xDrive20d SE __ professional multimedia package | dynamic package | climate package | 309s | xline | xenons | electric seats | folding mirrors | business speakers |
|
Appreciate
0
|
02-07-2011, 07:25 PM | #7 |
Lieutenant Colonel
45
Rep 1,876
Posts |
Comfort Access works with gloves on. Just tested it both opening and closing (by placing finger on ridged portion of door handle). The gloves were not too thick. IPhone won't work with them, but they're not serious winter backcountry gloves either.
Stealing codes? People will always try and sometimes succeed. I don't buy that Comfort Access is any more susceptible than a general remote. What I think I understand from the BMW approach to codes and ignitions disablers leaves me believing we BMW owners are better protected than most folks out there. If they really want my car, they'll get it. That's what insurance is for. Very few absolutes out there. No way I'd miss out on the awesome convenience of Comfort Access on the basis of that "designed to sell" article.
__________________
|
Appreciate
0
|
02-07-2011, 07:59 PM | #8 |
Private First Class
13
Rep 184
Posts |
I haven't read the article either...
But - I have a fair idea how comfort access works and have it on my existing BMW. A conventional remote, you press a button, it transmits an encrypted code to the car's receiver. A comfort access remote is detected by proximity, and *then* sends an encrypted code to the car's receiver. So - either way the encryption code can be intercepted - and as Nahoa mentions, with comfort access you need to be closer to the car than you do with a conventional remote. If I'm more than a few feet from my car and someone else puts their hand through the door handle - nothing happens. If some thief was close enough to be able to open the door by touch, you'd definitely know about it - they might as well just wait for you to open the door when you're getting out and push you out of the way - then to start the car, you would need to be very close, and they'd probably have to leave the door open. I haven't checked actually - but I don't think you can start the car if there's no key physically inside the car (in the same way you can't lock the car with comfort access, if you've accidentally left the key inside) Ok, so the encryption code can be intercepted either way - the comfort access doesn't make it more or less secure in that respect.. But, it's not a fixed code - it will do no good for a criminal with a scanner to capture the code, wait for you to leave and resend it.. - the code changes with every transmission. Based on a seed value and an generation algorithm and probably a fixed code too. To know what code to send, you'd need to know all of those, and it would be virtually impossible to work out the seed value even if you knew the generation algorithm. This kind of code security is common to secure networks - I have two fobs that generate a new code every 30 secs that work on this principle and are used to access some of my banking accounts and my works private networks. So in short, I wouldn't worry about comfort access vulnerabilities and I'm ordering it again on the X3 - it's really nice! |
Appreciate
0
|
02-08-2011, 12:17 AM | #9 |
Lieutenant
73
Rep 532
Posts |
Only have the print version. The paper claims comfort is a bigger risk as no button press is involved. Scanner 1 stands by car. Scanner 2 follows driver. 2 captures signal & sends to 1 who retransmits to car. Car thinks driver is next to car, unlocks and can be driven away. Industry, not just BMW which is listed, said to be worried.
|
Appreciate
0
|
02-08-2011, 02:16 AM | #10 |
Private First Class
11
Rep 141
Posts |
I reed the same article in a Norwegian magazine one month ago, they mentioned its different system from car manufacturer to car manufacturer so its possible BMW not have the easiest system to transmit the signal.
|
Appreciate
0
|
02-08-2011, 03:07 AM | #11 | |
Brigadier General
91
Rep 3,855
Posts |
Quote:
The difficulty (for the thieves) comes in the decryption. There are usually a pair of private encryption keys that are never sent and they are used to encrypt and decrypt messages. You need this private key to be able to communicate successfully. But, if you were picking up the unlock code from the driver who was away from the car, and simultaneously sending this code to thief 2 standing next to the car, I'm not sure how the car could know the difference between the owner and a thief.
__________________
F25 xDrive20d SE __ professional multimedia package | dynamic package | climate package | 309s | xline | xenons | electric seats | folding mirrors | business speakers |
|
Appreciate
0
|
02-08-2011, 03:49 AM | #12 |
Lieutenant
73
Rep 532
Posts |
Exactly as stated. The car does not know whose hand is on the door handle but when it received the correct retransmitted code it unlocks. The difference is that with comfort both the key and car are constantly transmitting so can constantly be recorded. With a button press this is much harder to capture in time. I should add I did not go for the comfort option or this reason an cost.
|
Appreciate
0
|
02-08-2011, 05:40 AM | #13 | |
Brigadier General
91
Rep 3,855
Posts |
Quote:
The process also has to start from scanner 1 at the car. It can't start from scanner 2 next to the driver. It is a worry IMO
__________________
F25 xDrive20d SE __ professional multimedia package | dynamic package | climate package | 309s | xline | xenons | electric seats | folding mirrors | business speakers |
|
Appreciate
0
|
02-08-2011, 06:19 AM | #14 |
Lieutenant
73
Rep 532
Posts |
Correct again, having reread the article. You would think they would have thought of this. Without going into details for security reasons I am pretty sure the kit required to do this would cost less than £300. The reporter headline reads "Open sesame" and talks of an "undetectable crime".
|
Appreciate
0
|
02-08-2011, 06:25 AM | #15 |
Lieutenant Colonel
45
Rep 1,876
Posts |
I'd like to see someone demo it, a beer says they can't. I believe they have thought of that. It's not exactly a rocket science idea for those designing such a system. If folks could that easily steal $50k to $180k cars, they'd be running away daily and none us would be able to afford insurance.
__________________
|
Appreciate
0
|
02-08-2011, 06:58 AM | #17 | |
Brigadier General
91
Rep 3,855
Posts |
Quote:
One would think that the unlock code would also be different to the start code so that just getting hold of a one-time unlock code and gaining access to the inside of the vehicle wouldn't allow you to drive it away using a device that only knows the unlock code (if that makes sense). It would allow you to take the handbrake off and push it into a lorry..... I think I would be right in saying that in the UK most expensive cars are stolen from people's driveways after car keys are stolen from the house. And then they're in a container on their way to Africa before you know it. For this reason you should never leave any car keys anywhere in your house if your car is there but you aren't. I go a step further and set the alarm downstairs at night and sleep next to my car keys
__________________
F25 xDrive20d SE __ professional multimedia package | dynamic package | climate package | 309s | xline | xenons | electric seats | folding mirrors | business speakers |
|
Appreciate
0
|
02-08-2011, 10:57 AM | #18 |
Brigadier General
91
Rep 3,855
Posts |
Here is a link with some more details. IMO you are probably as likely to be caught out by this with or without comfort access. Without because of the range of transmission on the remote key could make it very hard for you to spot someone intercepting your unlock signal. With because someone could follow you and the 2nd person could approach your car when you are out of sight.
http://www.technologyreview.com/comp...037/page1/?a=f
__________________
F25 xDrive20d SE __ professional multimedia package | dynamic package | climate package | 309s | xline | xenons | electric seats | folding mirrors | business speakers |
Appreciate
0
|
02-08-2011, 05:40 PM | #19 |
Private
10
Rep 56
Posts |
|
Appreciate
0
|
02-08-2011, 05:48 PM | #20 | |
Lieutenant Colonel
45
Rep 1,876
Posts |
Quote:
. . . which you'd expect from an American, right?
__________________
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
02-09-2011, 06:39 AM | #21 | |
Brigadier General
91
Rep 3,855
Posts |
Quote:
I can see how the whole burgle + steal car routine isn't quite such an attractive proposition when the owner has a gun!
__________________
F25 xDrive20d SE __ professional multimedia package | dynamic package | climate package | 309s | xline | xenons | electric seats | folding mirrors | business speakers |
|
Appreciate
0
|
02-09-2011, 07:42 AM | #22 |
Private First Class
39
Rep 169
Posts
Drives: 2023 X5 45e blue/cognac
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: N'England
|
I think some of this concern also has to do with where one lives. If you live in crime central then it may be of a concern.
Personally, I am more concerned with bears in my backyard ripping down my bird feeders and coyotees stealing and eating my cat then someone stealing my car code and taking my car... |
Appreciate
0
|
Post Reply |
Bookmarks |
|
|