[ianfp]

Hi All,
I know there are a lot of threads about this subject, so please forgive yet another!

I have 19" staggered 369s on my car and I am worried about using summer tyres in winter if the snow hits.
I am considering winter tyres, but the best price I have been given is £1200 for a set of Pirelli.
What have other folks done in winter with their 19" wheels. I don't want to buy winter wheels. Ideally I would like all seasons even though I know this is a compromise. I don't think they even exist for 19" wheels!

Any advice greatly appreciated!
Ian

[Thornton Davis]

I'm in Canada. I put 18" rims with 18" Bridgestone Blizzak snow tires on my 2012 X3 xDrive 35i MSport which has 19" factory rims and tires on it for the Spring, Summer and Fall seasons.

No problems! I'd prefer not to have to change over to snow tires as well but for safety sake you can't really get around it in this part of the country.

TD

[BMWLVX]

I have staggered 19" Pirelli Sottozero winter tyres on my M-sport wheels and they are great. We can get quite a bit of snow over here on mainland Europe. You UK guys have been doing OK on the snow levels the last few years also so I'd get a set of winter tyres. As you say, all season are a bit of a compromise

[ianfp]

Thanks Thornton Davis for your reply. I really don't want to fit a different set of wheels and tyres. If all else failed, I might consider it though.

BMWLVX thank you, I shall find out if Sottozero tyres are available in the UK. I don't think there are any all season tyres that fit the 19" rims in any case.

[philtrick123]

Originally Posted by ianfp

Hi All,
I know there are a lot of threads about this subject, so please forgive yet another!

I have 19" staggered 369s on my car and I am worried about using summer tyres in winter if the snow hits.
I am considering winter tyres, but the best price I have been given is £1200 for a set of Pirelli.
What have other folks done in winter with their 19" wheels. I don't want to buy winter wheels. Ideally I would like all seasons even though I know this is a compromise. I don't think they even exist for 19" wheels!

Any advice greatly appreciated!
Ian

Looks like they can supply here-
http://www.mytyres.co.uk

Non staggered for Winter/ All Seasons?

[ianfp]

philtrick123 thank you for the link. Unfortunately there are no all season tyres and only a few expensive winter tyres, not all of which have front tyres to match the rear 275s.

I enquired twice at my local dealership and they haven't called me back.

Still in a dilemma as to what to do!

[barcelona]

^ Try Nokian, WRG2/3/SUV==> all weather, alternative if you do not want to sets of tires available

http://www.nokiantyres.com/media-rel...ar=2013&group=

[ianfp]

Originally Posted by barcelona

^ Try Nokian, WRG2/3/SUV==> all weather, alternative if you do not want to sets of tires available

http://www.nokiantyres.com/media-rel...ar=2013&group=

barcelona thanks for the info! I would love to get a set of Nokian that you mention. Unfortunately they don't list the size I need. It is a shame as they sound like the perfect tyre for my needs!

[sfax]

I have staggered 309s and the only option is wheels and tyres as far as I'm aware. I went for all square 18s for winter. Bear in mind you can sell them to recoup some of the capital outlay, and using different wheels reduces the risk of damage when switching run flat tyres on the same rims. I store mine at home and it's £30 a pop to switch at BMW. I use blackcircles for tyres but got rims and tyres from BMW

[ianfp]

Originally Posted by sfax

I have staggered 309s and the only option is wheels and tyres as far as I'm aware. I went for all square 18s for winter. Bear in mind you can sell them to recoup some of the capital outlay, and using different wheels reduces the risk of damage when switching run flat tyres on the same rims. I store mine at home and it's £30 a pop to switch at BMW. I use blackcircles for tyres but got rims and tyres from BMW

Hi sfax, thanks for your input. I have a feeling that this may be my only option. However, I am really keen to replace the P Zeros on my rims. All seasons would have done that, but if I buy a set of wheels & tyres, I still have the need to replace my 19" tyres. This looks to be a cost of around £3000, which is too much. We don't get a lot of snow here on the south coast, but I don't want to risk the hard compound summer run flats! I can't win:/

[sfax]

Originally Posted by ianfp

Hi sfax, thanks for your input. I have a feeling that this may be my only option. However, I am really keen to replace the P Zeros on my rims. All seasons would have done that, but if I buy a set of wheels & tyres, I still have the need to replace my 19" tyres. This looks to be a cost of around £3000, which is too much. We don't get a lot of snow here on the south coast, but I don't want to risk the hard compound summer run flats! I can't win:/

I would save your cash! I only got mine because I occasionally take it to Europe in winter where you actually need them. I've driven it a total of 3 times in the snow in Berks in nearly 3 years.

I don't see the benefit in the below 7C minimal gains in safety. You are much safer replacing your tyres more regularly (e.g. at 3-4 not legal min), or simply driving more slowly in adverse conditions

[Chris55]

I would definitely not use a staggered set up for the winter. It will make the car unstable, unpredictable and basically unsafe. That's perhaps why BMW Switzerland will not have staggered set ups available in their packages. You can buy the staggered winter tires separately for your wheels but really it's not recommended. Of course, at the end of the day the choice is all yours.

This is my setup for winter: 309s 19" with Dunlop SP Winter Sport 3D RSC 245/45R19 102V XL (non staggered for winter).

I have the pressure set at 35 lbs (2.4 bar) in the front, and 40 lbs (2.8 bar) in the back.

[Rogerbu]

I have staggered 369s for summer and 17 inch 305s for winter.
I was amazed last winter at how well the winter 305s stopped me going downhill on ice - The car just stopped with no slip or fuss: ice, what ice

I have acquired another set of 305s and will switch to 17 inch wheels for the summer.
So I have a spare set of staggered 369s if anyone is interested (currently have part used Pirrellis mounted).

[UKMS]

Originally Posted by sfax

I would save your cash! I only got mine because I occasionally take it to Europe in winter where you actually need them. I've driven it a total of 3 times in the snow in Berks in nearly 3 years.

I don't see the benefit in the below 7C minimal gains in safety. You are much safer replacing your tyres more regularly (e.g. at 3-4 not legal min), or simply driving more slowly in adverse conditions

Interesting points you raise ...... personally I fit winter tyres every year to my main daily use vehicle usually December to end of March when the average temp in the UK is below the benchmark 7C and I certainly don't view them as snow tyres. For me they are simply cold weather tyres.

You mention "minimal gains in safety" .... pushing aside the promotional stuff from BMW or tyre makers its very well documented independently that winter tyres will give you a far shorter stopping distance whatever speed you drive, so even reducing speed (as you suggest) you still stop quicker/shorter with winters. 60MPH on a simple wet road average winter tyres will stop 5metres shorter and at 20MPH on an icy road average winter tyres will stop 11metres shorter. This is aside of cold dry roads, snow, slush and anything else you can put on a cold road.

I encounter rain frequently during winter wherever I drive in the UK and quite often ice even if we don't get that much snow. Personally I wouldn't call a significant reduction in stopping distance a minimal gain in safety

As for cost I feel its a bit of a misconception that winter tyres are a cost .... for me taking a 36 month life of a vehicle I would typically use 3 sets of tyres - 12 months per set. So taking my average 4 months use of winters .... I will get 12 months use from one set of winters (3 x 4 months) and 24 months use from two sets of summers (3 x 8 months). Of course this doesn't apply to everyone but for anyone while you drive on winters you are saving the summers.

Overall I spend on 3 sets regardless of what they are so there is no extra cost on tyre purchase in my situation. Of course its personal choice if I buy alloys for winter but its not necessary I just prefer to do this and I always have them to sell at the end to reduce cost.

I've just had a new set of 307's with winters fitted today that I ordered last month which seems good timing looking at the UK forecast

Just my 2c worth

MS

[plymjack]

Originally Posted by UKMS

Interesting points you raise ...... personally I fit winter tyres every year to my main daily use vehicle usually December to end of March when the average temp in the UK is below the benchmark 7C and I certainly don't view them as snow tyres. For me they are simply cold weather tyres.

MS

Agree with all you said.

As all the UK would benefit as their seasonal average is 7deg or below from Dec to Feb it makes sense.

Especially as they dont cost that much given the wear would be the same for your "main" tyres.

May be they are only of real benefit for the few days of ice & snow we may see, but the cost is not great if you get the full wear out of them.

[cooldude00]

agree with most views (even differing ones) - the only real extra cost is that of the alloys if you buy a set rather than swap... as long as you don't assume you will be able to recoup 100% when you resell, that it's fine!

coming up to the 3rd winter with the x3 now... have i really realised the benefit? prob not in the south, more for peace of mind like anything else....

[Rogerbu]

Just a minor thought.
My initial issue tires on 369s are tracking at 3800 miles per mm tread wear.
My Pirelli winter tires on 305s are tracking at 1900 miles per mm tread wear.

So my winter wheels are not going to last as long as their summer equivalents

[sfax]

Originally Posted by UKMS

Interesting points you raise ...... personally I fit winter tyres every year to my main daily use vehicle usually December to end of March when the average temp in the UK is below the benchmark 7C and I certainly don't view them as snow tyres. For me they are simply cold weather tyres.

You mention "minimal gains in safety" .... pushing aside the promotional stuff from BMW or tyre makers its very well documented independently that winter tyres will give you a far shorter stopping distance whatever speed you drive, so even reducing speed (as you suggest) you still stop quicker/shorter with winters. 60MPH on a simple wet road average winter tyres will stop 5metres shorter and at 20MPH on an icy road average winter tyres will stop 11metres shorter. This is aside of cold dry roads, snow, slush and anything else you can put on a cold road.

I encounter rain frequently during winter wherever I drive in the UK and quite often ice even if we don't get that much snow. Personally I wouldn't call a significant reduction in stopping distance a minimal gain in safety

As for cost I feel its a bit of a misconception that winter tyres are a cost .... for me taking a 36 month life of a vehicle I would typically use 3 sets of tyres - 12 months per set. So taking my average 4 months use of winters .... I will get 12 months use from one set of winters (3 x 4 months) and 24 months use from two sets of summers (3 x 8 months). Of course this doesn't apply to everyone but for anyone while you drive on winters you are saving the summers.

Overall I spend on 3 sets regardless of what they are so there is no extra cost on tyre purchase in my situation. Of course its personal choice if I buy alloys for winter but its not necessary I just prefer to do this and I always have them to sell at the end to reduce cost.

I've just had a new set of 307's with winters fitted today that I ordered last month which seems good timing looking at the UK forecast

Just my 2c worth

MS

I'll try not re-open this debate (and for the record I have winter tyres - and they're now fitted for this winter) but if you're interested in my argument on this (and have a spare 20 minutes!) read these posts:

http://x3.xbimmers.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11028633

http://x3.xbimmers.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11079120

http://x3.xbimmers.com/forums/showthread.php?p=13359414




If you're the sort of person that replaces your tyres when they hit 4mm because of the reduced stopping distance then by all means get winters even when you get no snow. If you're not, the stopping distance gains at 5C are wiped out by simply changing your worn tyres earlier.

Not saying that they aren't safer, just that are lots of other ways to be much safer, primarily replacing worn tyres earlier than people do generally.

All of that said, I think they're great in the snow and I want some (snow!)

[sfax]

Originally Posted by cooldude00

agree with most views (even differing ones) - the only real extra cost is that of the alloys if you buy a set rather than swap... as long as you don't assume you will be able to recoup 100% when you resell, that it's fine!

coming up to the 3rd winter with the x3 now... have i really realised the benefit? prob not in the south, more for peace of mind like anything else....

They do make you really want snow though don't they? Even if you end up stuck in hours of traffic with the 95% of cars in England that don't fit them sliding around in front of you

[ianfp]

sfax and all, thanks for your input!

sfax, I read the threads that you refer to and one of your comments stands out - 'I don't want to be the plonker that gets stuck in the snow in a 4x4'. This is so on the button for me as the last thing I want is to be stuck at the bottom of the hill!

There are two sides to this for me personally, one is that I really don't like my Pirelli P zero's and want to change them. The other is that I don't want to get stuck in the snow with my summer tyres.

sfax, what is your experience driving with your 19" wheels in snow?

[sfax]

Originally Posted by ianfp

sfax and all, thanks for your input!

sfax, I read the threads that you refer to and one of your comments stands out - 'I don't want to be the plonker that gets stuck in the snow in a 4x4'. This is so on the button for me as the last thing I want is to be stuck at the bottom of the hill!

There are two sides to this for me personally, one is that I really don't like my Pirelli P zero's and want to change them. The other is that I don't want to get stuck in the snow with my summer tyres.

sfax, what is your experience driving with your 19" wheels in snow?

Haha, yup, silly as it may sound, it was a factor!

Re. 19s in the snow, zero experience I'm afraid as the only snow I've driven in (hardly any in last 3 years in Berks) has been when wearing my winter shoes - they are the all-square 18s in the picture above (307s with Dunlop SP Winter Sport 3Ds)

[UKMS]

Originally Posted by sfax

I'll try not re-open this debate (and for the record I have winter tyres - and they're now fitted for this winter) but if you're interested in my argument on this (and have a spare 20 minutes!) read these posts:

http://x3.xbimmers.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11028633

http://x3.xbimmers.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11079120

http://x3.xbimmers.com/forums/showthread.php?p=13359414




If you're the sort of person that replaces your tyres when they hit 4mm because of the reduced stopping distance then by all means get winters even when you get no snow. If you're not, the stopping distance gains at 5C are wiped out by simply changing your worn tyres earlier.

Not saying that they aren't safer, just that are lots of other ways to be much safer, primarily replacing worn tyres earlier than people do generally.

All of that said, I think they're great in the snow and I want some (snow!)

Interesting threads .... It's a bit like the Canon v Nikon discussion if you are a camera user .... I fully accept that the statistics, facts, figures and variables can be used either way. For me regardless of the stats they only need to perform well once on a freezing winter day saving me stuffing the car on the M4 and they are worth every penny ! .... Like you I can't wait for the snow

MS