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      08-15-2011, 06:16 AM   #1
Bill S
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Winter Tyres

Here we are in the middle of August and its time to order up Winter tyres (I live in the rural far north of England)

For the X3 3.0d I have the choice of 225/60R17 Pirelli SottoZero @ £1700
or 245/50/R18 Dunlop Winter Sports @ £2200 from BMW (preferred supplier as they have tyre hotels)
Runflats are needed for the lady of the house.

Normally I would have chosen the 225s; narrower tyre being better for snow and the 60s being better for the potholes & ruts.

But the Winter-Sports seem to get much better write-ups in snow than the SottoZeros.

Knowing that some on this forum will be from even worse climates than here, I would appreciate some expert comment!
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      08-15-2011, 07:50 AM   #2
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Can I ask why not consider All Season tyres Bill? PIRELLI 225/60R17 SCORPION VERDE ALL SEASON and YOKOHAMA 225/60R17 99H G012 GEOLANDER A/T-S or YOKOHAMA 225/60R17 99V G95A GEOLANDAR HT seem to be options. Oh and I am in exactly the same situ as you!
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      08-15-2011, 08:35 AM   #3
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It maybe different in England, but here in the Midwest and north of the border in Canada winter tires make a very big difference. All Seasons are a real compromise that are best avoided if you get low temperatures and snow and ice for several months of the year.
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      08-15-2011, 08:59 AM   #4
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In Scotland we are (normally) talking about snow for maybe 3 days twice a year round where I am. So on that basis, all advice welcome as All Weather would save a lot of messing about if they are not too big a compromise. Annual temp range for me is normally -6C to +25C, with daytime temps nearly always positive (sounds like a visit Scotland advert this!)
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      08-15-2011, 09:01 AM   #5
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All season tires give you mediocre performance year round. They are only suitable in the winter in warmer climates that see little or no snow. I've been running blizzaks on at least 2 of my cars every winter since I moved back north in '04. 225/40/18 & 255/35/18 in my 335XI, 205/50/17 & 255/40/17 in my Porsche. In my FX I went -2 because they didn't offer any winter tires in my size in 20" diameter, 265/60/18 all around. I find the performance with OEM sizes to be great. The real limiting factor is ground clearance. No matter what I drive, when the snow is up to the bumper it's going to be a problem getting around. I'm shopping for 18" and 19" packages for my soon to arrive x3 35i.
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      08-16-2011, 01:33 AM   #6
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We have been getting a lot more than 3 days snow in recent years. Winter tyres are a definite choice but its more to do with which ones. The performance improvement is in all winter weather, not just snow; I will expect to keep them on from Nov-Mar.

The nearest temperature record available is from a location on the coast that typically is 3C higher than my home, but even here it indicates that winter tyres are better (temp. below 7C/45F) through the lower temperatures of the day for a substantial part of the year.

Nothing like the temperatures in some parts of the world but cold enough (even in sunny Scotland )
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      08-16-2011, 02:52 AM   #7
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It does look like people dislike All Weathers and see them as a compromise. That said, swapping wheels at National Tyres (so they tell me) costs £10 per corner, so £80 per year. Not cheap and with the weight of an X3 not something I could do myself. Still not sure what to do so your decision Bill will be a big influence. Keep us posted. And yes, we are on the coast and get bothered by salt spray tho it is mild.
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      08-16-2011, 02:53 AM   #8
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Have you considered for those few days there is snow on the ground using "tyre snow socks", much cheaper than a set of tyres.
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      08-16-2011, 02:56 AM   #9
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Meant to post this link again:
This link takes you to a site owned by the BTMA (British Tyre Manufacturers Association) which has useful information on tyres. 7th article down are some performance comparisons. http://www.btmauk.com/page/useful-in...ce-statements/

A winter tyre's grip tends to come into its own from temperatures of 7 degrees centigrade down.
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      08-16-2011, 03:03 AM   #10
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Even here in Canada there is some a debate about winter vs all-seasons. I always go with winter tires but even here if do your driving in the city and on major highways all-seasons are usually fine.

Generally I can't imagine winter tires being worth it in the UK, although if you are going up steep and windy roads along the sea in even 0 C weather you will want them for sure.
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      08-16-2011, 04:32 AM   #11
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Thanks for the sock idea. I did look into these way back. They work well in snow but as soon as you can see tarmac they shred. The advantage of winter / all weather as per the link above is they improve cool wet safety and as Bill said are not just about snow. A final issue is mileage. For low mileage drivers it is a tougher choice. So:
1. run Summers, noting below 7C & wet you could do better;
2. swap to winter each Autumn, noting cost of winter wheels,tyres and swapping;
3. look at temporary solutions - socks & chains;
4. compromise all year with All weather tyres which do not need to be changed.

I was edging towards 4, noting the handling, mpg and other compromises involved but would welcome other views.
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      08-16-2011, 07:02 AM   #12
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Quote:
A winter tyre's grip tends to come into its own from temperatures of 7 degrees centigrade down
Excellent point.
I went with the 19" mixed performance setup so I'll need to have winter tires and wheels.
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      08-16-2011, 10:04 AM   #13
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I do have socks for my 535.
Difficult to put on even in the best of conditions although it would be much easier on the X3 with more space above the wheel.
They are perhaps OK for occasional emergency use but not for far or frequent - and certainly never if you're in a hurry.

The advantages of winter tyres are for 4-6 months of the year. 4-6 months with much better performance whenever temperatures are below 7C/45F.

Seems to me that there is little point in considering the performance of a car if you don't consider the performance of its contact with the road....

Too often we compare BMW/Audi/Merc etc but forget Goodyear/Dunlop/Pirelli etc.
This seems the problem - very few real comparisons of performance, particularly between different size options.

Winter tyres even with wheels are a lot less in cost than the car - they're a no-brainer on a new vehicle imho

Last edited by Bill S; 08-16-2011 at 10:28 AM.. Reason: missed item
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      08-17-2011, 10:24 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by X3buyerScotland View Post
Can I ask why not consider All Season tyres Bill? PIRELLI 225/60R17 SCORPION VERDE ALL SEASON and YOKOHAMA 225/60R17 99H G012 GEOLANDER A/T-S or YOKOHAMA 225/60R17 99V G95A GEOLANDAR HT seem to be options. Oh and I am in exactly the same situ as you!
Found this very useful comparison of All Season/Winter.
Still no useful comparison of 210 SottoZero with Winter sport.
I guess I will just go with the Pirelli, being the narrower tyre.
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      08-17-2011, 10:48 AM   #15
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Yep and there is some good YouTube footage of an X3 tyre comparison that shows winter to be the way to go on snow, as you might expect. Key point here is even 4x4s can't defy the laws of physics and grip is what you need. Amazed tho still BMW UK don't tell you that they are selling you summer tyres, potentially the most vital part of the of the car an showing photos of them in snow without telling you you need to change tyres first is just plain misleading.
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      09-04-2011, 01:07 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill S View Post
Here we are in the middle of August and its time to order up Winter tyres (I live in the rural far north of England)

For the X3 3.0d I have the choice of 225/60R17 Pirelli SottoZero @ £1700
or 245/50/R18 Dunlop Winter Sports @ £2200 from BMW (preferred supplier as they have tyre hotels)
Runflats are needed for the lady of the house.

Normally I would have chosen the 225s; narrower tyre being better for snow and the 60s being better for the potholes & ruts.

But the Winter-Sports seem to get much better write-ups in snow than the SottoZeros.

Knowing that some on this forum will be from even worse climates than here, I would appreciate some expert comment!
I have coming for my new Car ( X3 35D M Sport) team dynamics 1.3 pro-race 18" * 8.5" wheels and Dunlop winter sport 100V XL run-flats 245/45/18, all in £1900.00 from performance alloys in the UK. Have a look don't pay BMW's prices.
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      09-04-2011, 01:14 PM   #17
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Not bad. I did a deal on non-rf Winters on BMW 17's for about £500 less than that as part of my buy plan.
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      09-04-2011, 01:44 PM   #18
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decided not to get the winter tyres anymore.. 1700 for a set of RFTs on the 304s was lil too rich for my blood... i'll stick with a pair of autosocks.. bought 1 last yr for the E60 and it wasn't even used!
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      09-04-2011, 02:01 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnbmw6 View Post
I have coming for my new Car ( X3 35D M Sport) team dynamics 1.3 pro-race 18" * 8.5" wheels and Dunlop winter sport 100V XL run-flats 245/45/18, all in £1900.00 from performance alloys in the UK. Have a look don't pay BMW's prices.
Hi

Should the tyre size be 245/50/18 rather than 45's?

rgds
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      09-04-2011, 07:25 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 6290535 View Post
Hi

Should the tyre size be 245/50/18 rather than 45's?

rgds
For UK models that come with the 18 inch wheels (type 307 or 308) , the OEM tire size is 245/50-18. For cars that are delivered with 17 inch wheels the OEM tire (sorry Brits: "tyre") are either 245/50-17 or 225/60-17. Obviously, the speedometer calibration is different for the cars w/17 inch wheels by about 4.1% as compared with the 18 inch wheels.

245/50-17*****786 rev./mile
225/60-17*****763 rev./mile

For corrrect speedo and odometer calibration, it's always a good idea to stick with tires that have the same outside diameter (O.D.). It's possible to change the wheel diameter as long as the aspect ratio (the second section number is adjusted accordingly. For instance a Dunlop SP 275/40-19 tire turns 755 revs/mile - exactly the same as a Dunlop SP 245/50-18. The O.D.s of these tires are the same (27.7 inches) so the speedo and odo calibration is correct as are the designed optimum shift points of the transmission for best fuel economy.

On the other hand, going to tires of slightly smaller O.D, such as going from 245/50-18 to a 245/40-18 is equivalent to changing the overall gearing (the final-drive ratio). Such a change will slightly increase the acceleration of the vehicle, and will slightly decrease the fuel efficiency. For some it might be an acceptable trade-off.
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      09-05-2011, 02:44 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 6290535 View Post
Hi

Should the tyre size be 245/50/18 rather than 45's?

rgds
.

Ideally yes but these wheels were for my 550i M Sport and are 12.5mm smaller = @ 30MPH the readings are 31.25 MPH @ 60 readings are 62.3 MPH.
So to save selling the wheels I am using them, the Offset is ET35 and fits the X3 perfect.
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