[dencobmw]

I took my 2013 X3 28i into the dealer this morning for a "peace of mind" oil change. It has about 5000 miles on it and I just wanted to get the break-in oil out of the engine.

I mentioned to the service manager an occasional lurching/pulsating issue I've experienced when execrating hard. He asked what kind of gas I've been using. I always use 91 octane which is the highest you can find most places in Colorado (due to the altitude?). But when I said I filled up at King Soopers (a Kroger chain grocery store) the guy freaked out and told me that the "discount" gas from the grocery stores can cause serious damage to my engine. He recommended Conoco or Shell and proceeded to tell me that they just replaced all the fuel injectors in one customer's car at 22K miles because they were buying bad gas. He said they had to "pull some strings" to get BMW to cover it under warrantee.

Wow. So it freaked me out a bit. I guess I can wrap my head around the fact that grocery store gas isn't the highest quality (with more ethanol?) and could be the culprit for my performance issues. But damage? In 5000 miles have done damage to my car already by using this gas?

Also, what other options do I really have? I think it's Colorado law that gas have 10% ethanol. Is the Shell stuff really going to be different?

Thanks!

[stooler]

We must all be doomed. I have a hard time getting a pump at Krogers, what with all of the mb's, cayennes, corvettes, lexii and other premium guzzlers hogging the queue. sam

[epiphone3]

I highly doubt the gas you have been using will hurt your car, however, I would say that it wouldn't hurt to try Shell or Conoco and see if the problem goes away with a tank or two of their gas.

The other thing I'd point out is that Shell and (I believe) Conoco belong to the Top Tier gas standard. Top Tier gasolines are recommended by BMW as they are detergent gasonlines that keep things very clean. An alternative might be use the grocery store fuel and use the BMW injector cleaner additive according its specs.

[valeram]

I always use Shell if possible.

[Beyu]

Grocery gas brands and Costco probably aren't the best when it comes to quality but to say that by using it will damage your car is a stretch.

I don't doubt that the service manager is way more credible and knowledgeable than myself but the "lurching/pulsing" problem is an issue with the transmission's software. Update SIB 63 03 10 seems to solve the problem for some people and a large amount of us on here have gotten the update already.

[rmeir]

my cars all run better on shell. I put costco in it, and dont get the mileage, and dont want to say it runs rough, but i can tell the difference. Maybe it doesnt matter for regular but for a sophisticated engine I dont like costco at all.

[dencobmw]

Thanks for the replies.

Interestingly, I haven't had any complaints about my gas milage so far. I can get as much as 29 mpg on my morning commute and my all time milage is at 24 mpg and creeping higher. But I'll definitely stop buying gas at the grocery store I guess. And here I thought I was being good by paying for the highest octane!

And just to clarify, my lurching issue isn't the throttle lag that's widely reported. My issue is an uneven acceleration or roughness that I can actually believe would be caused by poor quality gas. I just hope there's no irreversible damage done so far.

[epiphone3]

Originally Posted by matteowade

Thanks for the replies.

Interestingly, I haven't had any complaints about my gas milage so far. I can get as much as 29 mpg on my morning commute and my all time milage is at 24 mpg and creeping higher. But I'll definitely stop buying gas at the grocery store I guess. And here I thought I was being good by paying for the highest octane!

And just to clarify, my lurching issue isn't the throttle lag that's widely reported. My issue is an uneven acceleration or roughness that I can actually believe would be caused by poor quality gas. I just hope there's no irreversible damage done so far.

I doubt there is any irreversible damage. The only way I can think that there would be was if the thing was pinging or rattling (ie. engine knock). The uneven acceleration you feel is likely just the engine electronics retarding the ignition timing to avoid engine knock. This suggests to me that the engine electronics have done their job in protecting the engine and you should have nothing to worry about.

Throw some shell v-power in it for a couple tanks and you should be good to go.

[wedge000]

I wouldn't be surprised if all the suppliers come from the same refineries. It's not like Kroger owns an oil refinery and manufactures their own gasoline. It could just be private label Shell, Conoco, or BP gas. Look up who has the closet refinery in your area.

[Beyu]

Originally Posted by matteowade

And just to clarify, my lurching issue isn't the throttle lag that's widely reported. My issue is an uneven acceleration or roughness that I can actually believe would be caused by poor quality gas. I just hope there's no irreversible damage done so far.

Are you referring to the issue where if you're at a dead stop and try to accelerate the car seems to lurch or jolt forward before picking up speed? If so I too have that issue and only use 92 octane from Chevron.

[MattUK]

I'd be hugely surprised if it causes any damage. BMW engines are rock solid, and are tuned to cover a wide range of markets and fuel types ranging from western world right across to eastern europe and other places where you may find lower grade markets.

Sure they may be tuned slightly in each country, but to suggest a vendors fuel will damage the car I think its a little daft.. if there was a problem on a car, then there was a problem with the car already I would suggest.

[slam]

I highly doubt grocery store gas at 91 Grade would cause any long-term problems. The vehicle is rated for a minimum 89 Grade and even if the chain stores 91 Grade is realistically at 89, you would still be using the mfg approved levels.

The same with the refining of gas. There are only so many refineries in the US (approx 120), with the last new location built in 1972 due to very strict environmental laws. Cities are trying to close them due to the pollution. So the supplies are unusually from the same places. Highly unlikely gas is arriving from anywhere else.

Most likely the Service Manager had an untruthful customer about the grade being used.

[n55x3]

Agreed with what everyone said, gas isn't likely the root of your issues. Sounds like the dealer is lazy and doesn't want to help much. By all means, make a switch to a different gas station and see if you notice a difference.

Like others have mentioned above, most gas in the US comes from the same stock. Some gas is supplemented with proprietary cleaning / performance agents for various vendors but that's about the only difference.

[lbjgh]

Not to muddy the waters but isn't a lower octane rate fuel just more likely to pre-detonate, i.e. knock?

So the worst that would happen is the engine knock sensor would detect knock and retard the ignition timing and prevent damage.

btw, I read an article in the Toronto paper stating the highest available octane fuel available here (94) is created with the help of ethanol.

http://www.thestar.com/wheels/articl...rmance-engines

[epiphone3]

Originally Posted by lbjgh

Not to muddy the waters but isn't a lower octane rate fuel just more likely to pre-detonate, i.e. knock?

So the worst that would happen is the engine knock sensor would detect knock and retard the ignition timing and prevent damage.

btw, I read an article in the Toronto paper stating the highest available octane fuel available here (94) is created with the help of ethanol.

http://www.thestar.com/wheels/articl...rmance-engines

You are correct.

Regarding the Sunoco 94, we get it here in Alberta at PetroCanada and when that arrived is when I stopped buying gasoline from PetroCanada. I stick to Shell and Esso these days to avoid getting the Ethanol. Sure the octane number is higher so the computer will advance your ignition (helps fuel economy) but the energy content of ethanol is lower and the gasoline with 10% ethanol therefore has less energy in it so your fuel economy actually gets a little bit worse on the whole. I have no pinging issues so I go for 91 octane that does not have ethanol.

[rmeir]

my understanding is that ethanol is in all gas regardless. modern engines are calibrated by the computer not to ping. If yr getting ping that is serious doodoo. All gas comes from the several refineries. as mentioned certain companies but different additives in it, but im sure places like costco and meijer enter into a deal to get the least expensive premium whatever they can. it might be premium but maybe not great premium. I cant prove any of this, its what i have picked up.

[Beyu]

We in the U.S. can only get gasoline with up to 10% ethanol.

[dencobmw]

The dealer said they have tested customer's gas and found up to 14% ethanol in someone's car who they suspected was buying from a discount place. Technically, BMW states in the manual that using fuel over 10% ethanol is cause for denying a warrantee claim. Damage that could occur (according to the dealership) would be clogged fuel injectors and premature degradation of hoses and pumps. But the service manager also said that in cases like these, BMW usually covers it anyway to keep folks happy.

I guess one could always keep gas receipts to show that you buy "top tier" fuel in case there is ever a dispute with BMW.

[epiphone3]

Originally Posted by matteowade

The dealer said they have tested customer's gas and found up to 14% ethanol in someone's car who they suspected was buying from a discount place. Technically, BMW states in the manual that using fuel over 10% ethanol is cause for denying a warrantee claim. Damage that could occur (according to the dealership) would be clogged fuel injectors and premature degradation of hoses and pumps. But the service manager also said that in cases like these, BMW usually covers it anyway to keep folks happy.

I guess one could always keep gas receipts to show that you buy "top tier" fuel in case there is ever a dispute with BMW.

Worse comes to worse, if you can demonstrate higher than 10% ethanol content and that you purchased fuel from a specific gas station, you can go after the gas station/gas company.

I got a bad tank of gas here in Canada once and had PetroCanada cover my expenses as a result of their bad fuel and they gave me the tank of gas for free.

[Professor///M]

Do a web search of "Top Tier Fuels" and find out what other local stations other than Shell is in your area.

I only put Shell in my car.