[sfax]

Thought I'd share a recent email from BMW UK re. BMW Connected Drive. As I can "find" my car with My BMW Remote app on my iPhone, I wondered if this information is shared with BMW so that in the event of the car being stolen, it could be tracked using the app. Normally it is restricted to 1500m and if the car is further away than that, the request is refused.

My email:

From: XXX [mailto:XXX@gmail.com]
Sent: 24 April 2011 13:47
To: BMW UK Customer Support
Subject: [SRNUMBER=1-6861493594]
Please could you clarify BMW UK's position with respect to information held about the location of the car. I have a new X3 with pro nav and also the My BMW Remote app on my iPhone. I am also setup for BMW Connected Drive.

1. With the my BMW Remote app I can request the car's location.
2. The phone sends a request to the car.
3. The car receives the request and sends a message to BMW giving the GPS coordinates of the car. I assume that these messages go through BMW or a third party's servers and check BMW's Connected Drive database.
4. A message is then sent back to the iPhone giving the co-ordinates, but if the GPS location of the phone is more than 1500m from the sent GPS coordinates of the car, the location is blocked for privacy reasons.

This is all OK but what it means is that BMW receives the GPS co-ordinates of the car and then block them being sent to the car because of the relative distances.

However, I was told yesterday on the telephone that you couldn't "see" the co-ordinates that my car had just sent to you. You definitely hold this information because otherwise the iPhone app couldn't function as it does using BMW Connected Drive. Obviously this has implications for the police if the car was ever stolen. If I then ask the car for its position and get a message back saying that it's more than 1500m away, BMW know the position of the car at this point, but are you saying that you would refuse to give this information to the police?

Please don't reply with a generic "no, we don't know the location of the car unless you call from the car". This isn't the case as I have proved above. I would like a technical answer for why you can't disclose information that you have received as this also has implications with respect to the Data Protection Act, i.e. you aren't disclosing information that you hold about me.

Thanks in advance for your help,

and the reply

Dear Mr XXX

Thank you for your email dated April 24, 2011, in relation to the BMW Remote iPhone Application.

This function does indeed allow you to locate your vehicle, however, only if you are within a radius of 1.5km to the vehicle at that time. Once you have logged into your account, the iPhone application will send a message to the vehicle requesting its location and this is then sent straight to the phone. Unfortunately, the information bypasses BMW as the co-ordinates of the vehicle are sent using the software in the phone and the vehicle only, directly from one to the other.

The only way that BW UK Customer Services will ever know the location of the vehicle is when you call us from inside the vehicle when you need directions sending to the vehicle. Otherwise, we do no receive any information pertaining to the location of your vehicle.

I trust that this information clarifies your enquiry, however, please do not hesitate to contact me should you require any further assistance in the future.

Yours sincerely

I still think that they could access this information but that they don't because they don't want to impact on the tracker market, after all the 1500m range restriction is purely for privacy reasons

[Bustofa]

Originally Posted by sfax

....I still think that they could access this information but that they don't because they don't want to impact on the tracker market, after all the 1500m range restriction is purely for privacy reasons

This seems like some pretty woolly thinking by BMW. They withhold the location of the car if further away than 1.5Km but say that the car sends the co-ords direct to the phone.
Therefore, the reliance is on the phone app to do 'the right thing' and not reveal the location if over 1.5Km. So, how do they confirm that the app is who it says it is and not something knocked up by a ne'er do well?
If they can vouch that the App is kosher, then why shouldn't they reveal the location of the vehicle no matter how far away it is?

[Max1Factor]

Originally Posted by sfax

I still think that they could access this information but that they don't because they don't want to impact on the tracker market, after all the 1500m range restriction is purely for privacy reasons

It's the "privacy" bit I don't get. If I (only) am registered so that the request comes from my phone (via wherever) to my car and details come back only to my phone, then what's the problem with me tracking my car further than 1.5km ?

Max3

[Max1Factor]

If there is no interception and the logic to bar the location is in the phone App, then a 3rd party will release a new app without the restriction?

[sfax]

The iphone needs location services to be switched on in order to actually send the request so I assume that the request message sent to the car contains the car's GPS co-ords. The car then refuses to send a message back if it calculates a distance greater than 1500m. I'm sure this can be hacked and the restriction removed.

I think the privacy thing is where you have more than one driver. Could reveal an unusual hobby or an an illicit affair!

[Bustofa]

Hadn't thought of that, I must admit, but clearly it could be the car deciding whether or not to reveal itself dependent on the location of the requesting device.

[Max1Factor]

Originally Posted by sfax

The iphone needs location services to be switched on in order to actually send the request so I assume that the request message sent to the car contains the car's GPS co-ords. The car then refuses to send a message back if it calculates a distance greater than 1500m. I'm sure this can be hacked and the restriction removed.

Makes sense. If my car gets nicked I'll go down to Dover and track it locally to a sea container bound for Albania.

Originally Posted by sfax

I think the privacy thing is where you have more than one driver. Could reveal an unusual hobby or an an illicit affair!

Noting on the X3 Sightings thread, some X3 have already been spotted "in the woods"

[sfax]

Originally Posted by Max3Factor

Makes sense. If my car gets nicked I'll go down to Dover and track it locally to a sea container bound for Albania.

Noting on the X3 Sightings thread, some X3 have already been spotted "in the woods"

[BIMMER UK 76]

I bet they love you

[LEDZEP]

Do you have BMW Assist in EMEA? In the US that system can be used to track a stolen vehicle, and the information is provided to police. From a pragmatic perspective, do you really want to walk up to the car theives with nothing but your cell phone in your hand and demand your car back?

[sfax]

Originally Posted by BIMMER UK 76

I bet they love you

I'm no longer on their Christmas Card list!

[sfax]

Originally Posted by LEDZEP

Do you have BMW Assist in EMEA? In the US that system can be used to track a stolen vehicle, and the information is provided to police. From a pragmatic perspective, do you really want to walk up to the car theives with nothing but your cell phone in your hand and demand your car back?

Yes we do have BMW Assist but no stolen car tracking as part of it even though the technology is in place to support it. I suspect there are commercial reasons for this because it would impact on sales of vehicle trackers. I still don't believe it works as they claim and I think requests for GPS and the car's sent GPS co-ords are logged externally but I don't have a great deal of trust for BMW UK

[LEDZEP]

Someone in the US made a clever suggestion: Leave your iPhone in the car and if it's stolen just call Apple and ask where it is.

[tetten]

Originally Posted by LEDZEP

Someone in the US made a clever suggestion: Leave your iPhone in the car and if it's stolen just call Apple and ask where it is.

[sfax]

Originally Posted by LEDZEP

Someone in the US made a clever suggestion: Leave your iPhone in the car and if it's stolen just call Apple and ask where it is.

Haha. You could also strap one to each family pet

[Harplayr]

Originally Posted by sfax

Yes we do have BMW Assist but no stolen car tracking as part of it even though the technology is in place to support it. I suspect there are commercial reasons for this because it would impact on sales of vehicle trackers. I still don't believe it works as they claim and I think requests for GPS and the car's sent GPS co-ords are logged externally but I don't have a great deal of trust for BMW UK

When I called to activate BMW Assist, the operator told me exactly where I was as a test of the system.

[LEDZEP]

Originally Posted by Harplayr

When I called to activate BMW Assist, the operator told me exactly where I was as a test of the system.

Yep, they always verify your location with you.

TIP: once a month, press the SOS button and say you just want to test the system. Not only don't they mind, they appreciate you doing that (the call center is probably staffed and budgeted based on call metrics). I had need for mine once and it wasn't working.... now I test regularly.

[sfax]

I'm going to press my SOS button daily from now on to piss them off until they agree to allow stolen car tracking!!! Hi, yeah, me again, Wednesday and still working? Good good, speak to you tomorrow

[BIMMER UK 76]

Originally Posted by sfax

I'm going to press my SOS button daily from now on to piss them off until they agree to allow stolen car tracking!!! Hi, yeah, me again, Wednesday and still working? Good good, speak to you tomorrow