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      09-20-2015, 08:19 AM   #23
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Did you buy the car from the dealer that crashed it?
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      09-21-2015, 11:14 AM   #24
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Sorry to hear about this. I don't agree with some of the views above, but thought I would add that this happened to me with my 5 series (transporter backed into it whilst parked up in the garage waiting for a service and did some lovely damage consistent with the tonnage of a fully laden HGV reversing through a parked car).

Dealership fixed it, perfectly matched paint, I couldn't tell the difference, and it made no odds when I finally traded in for my new one. And I got to enjoy a new 5GT whilst they repaired it. Sorry yours is only a 3GT

I got it independently assessed by a friendly local garage when I got it back and they found no problems and I was content enough with that. I understand that others views may differ, but I don't subscribe to the mindset that suggests any accident repair is a write-off and replacement is the only option in a situation where airbags didn't deploy. I'd rather it was assessed by professionals after the repairs to come to that conclusion.

Good luck though. I remember how sick I felt when I first got the news, even though it all worked out fine.
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      09-21-2015, 11:31 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by f4780y
Sorry to hear about this. I don't agree with some of the views above, but thought I would add that this happened to me with my 5 series (transporter backed into it whilst parked up in the garage waiting for a service and did some lovely damage consistent with the tonnage of a fully laden HGV reversing through a parked car).

Dealership fixed it, perfectly matched paint, I couldn't tell the difference, and it made no odds when I finally traded in for my new one. And I got to enjoy a new 5GT whilst they repaired it. Sorry yours is only a 3GT

I got it independently assessed by a friendly local garage when I got it back and they found no problems and I was content enough with that. I understand that others views may differ, but I don't subscribe to the mindset that suggests any accident repair is a write-off and replacement is the only option in a situation where airbags didn't deploy. I'd rather it was assessed by professionals after the repairs to come to that conclusion.

Good luck though. I remember how sick I felt when I first got the news, even though it all worked out fine.
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      09-21-2015, 05:37 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by f4780y View Post
Sorry to hear about this. I don't agree with some of the views above, but thought I would add that this happened to me with my 5 series (transporter backed into it whilst parked up in the garage waiting for a service and did some lovely damage consistent with the tonnage of a fully laden HGV reversing through a parked car).

Dealership fixed it, perfectly matched paint, I couldn't tell the difference, and it made no odds when I finally traded in for my new one. And I got to enjoy a new 5GT whilst they repaired it. Sorry yours is only a 3GT

I got it independently assessed by a friendly local garage when I got it back and they found no problems and I was content enough with that. I understand that others views may differ, but I don't subscribe to the mindset that suggests any accident repair is a write-off and replacement is the only option in a situation where airbags didn't deploy. I'd rather it was assessed by professionals after the repairs to come to that conclusion.

Good luck though. I remember how sick I felt when I first got the news, even though it all worked out fine.

f4789y, thank you for your words of wisdom! It is nice to receive a balanced opinion. I will try and go into this with an open mind and see what happens.

Did your dealer offer any kind of compensation? I am not going to ask for compensation as such, but I would like their commitment to offer me a very good deal on a new car. I shall have to wait and see how I feel about it.

I have some nice 'before' photos and I may post some 'after' photos!

Thank you again everyone who has commented!
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      09-21-2015, 07:22 PM   #27
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To do that much damage, he must have been moving at a pretty good clip.
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      09-22-2015, 01:58 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy_o View Post
Sensible post
Apart from the comment "And I got to enjoy a new 5GT whilst they repaired it. Sorry yours is only a 3GT"
I would rather have a 3GT over a 5GT any day

Slightly I know
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      09-22-2015, 02:49 AM   #29
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Back in 2005 I took out a 3 year business lease on a new 3 series coupe. Delivery took longer than expected because I opted for Estoril Blue paintwork. Vehicle was coming from a dealer in Ipswich and on delivery day got a phone call from the sales guy to say that whilst the driver was bringing it to me it was rear ended. Dealer gave me the option of it being repaired or ordering a another one (which would take at least 8 weeks). I went for the latter and the dealer gave me another 3 series to use free of charge whilst I was waiting.

I had the registration of the damaged vehicle and kept looking at the dealers website to see if it ever appeared - 6 months later it was on the forecourt being sold as an ex-demonstrator - I wonder if they would disclose the damage to any potential buyer?
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      09-22-2015, 09:58 AM   #30
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Is there a equivalent of a CarFax in UK?
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      09-24-2015, 04:13 PM   #31
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My car being crashed by the dealer is only part of my problem with the Diesel fiasco going on. I really don't know how I will feel about my X3 when I eventually get it back?
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      09-25-2015, 01:00 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ianfp View Post
My car being crashed by the dealer is only part of my problem with the Diesel fiasco going on.
If you're talking about that AutoBild article that's being published Friday, Sept. 25th, it's mostly BS. They have already issued two "clarification" statements that amount to a retraction.

Did AutoBild test the X3 xDrive 20d in question? No.

They relied on a report from the ICCT. Did the ICCT test it? No.

The ICCT received a report from Emissions Analytics, a testing outfit in the UK. So did Emissions Analytics perform an exhaustive series of scientific road tests to reach their results? No. The results reported are based on one X3 xDrive 20d that they say tested excessive NOx emissions over a single one-hour road test. No details about that one-hour road test. Was it uphill?

AutoBild has been issuing one clarification statement after another since then. They said it was never their intention to accuse BMW of manipulating their engines. They said there is no evidence that BMW manipulated their engines or employed a defeat device like VW used. In total, three different clarifications from AutoBild trying to walk back this article that was pre-released Thursday.

Now, let's talk about your situation with the dealer's employee crashing your X3 into another car. I can only tell you how this works in the US. I don't know if it's the same in the UK.

In the US, when you leave your car with the dealer for repairs or service, you are "entrusting" it to him. From that point on he is responsible for it with the exception of any valuables you may have left in the car, which is why there are usually warning notices posted asking you to please remove all personal items from the car. In other words, in the US you can't call the dealer back the following day and say you just discovered that the $20,000 Rolex you left in the glove box is missing.

In the US, if your car is damaged while in the dealer's care it is covered by the dealer's garage owner's insurance. Accidents happen. That's why we have insurance, including your dealer. In the US, the dealer would immediately apologize and offer to provide you with a loaner car. Make sure you are satisfied with the repairs. I would suggest you ask to see the car to inspect the extent of the damage yourself. After all, it is your property. You have every right to see it. Take pictures of the damage for your records.

Report this incident to your insurance company. Explain exactly what happened and that the dealer is taking care of the repairs and is providing you with a loaner car.

Inspect the car carefully after it is finished. A careful inspection would include viewing it from underneath while it is elevated on a lift. If possible, take a friend with you who is experienced in the car business in any way at all.

As far as the fair market value of any car after it has had body work done to it is concerned, it drops in value compared to a car that has never been repaired. How much it drops depends on the amount of the damage. In the US, if the accident was your fault, you just keep your mouth shut and don't ask for "diminished value" compensation. If the accident was the other guy's fault and it's his insurance company that is paying for the repairs, you insist on "diminished value" compensation. In the US you would be dealing with a claims adjuster hired by the other guy's insurance company. When the adjuster tries to get you to sign a complete release, you simply tell him that you expect to receive x-amount in "diminished value" compensation because the car is now worth less.

Over here, if the accident was the other guy's fault, you are in the driver's seat. The insurance company desperately wants you to sign a complete release so that you can't hit them with a personal injury lawsuit 364 days after the date of the accident claiming your back hurts. Over here you have one year to file for personal injury damages following an accident.

So over here what usually happens is that the adjuster will usually offer to pay you a token amount for any injury you may have suffered, even if just a sore back for a day or two, just to get you to sign the release. Typically they will say they're adding maybe $500 for your "pain" and distress, or something like that. Of course that doesn't apply in your case because you weren't even in the car. However, over here at least, you could still demand "diminished value" compensation. Your dealer will almost always tell you that isn't possible and that's when you tell him you will need to talk directly to the insurance company. Incredibly, over here many dealers do not report claims to their insurance company unless there is very significant damage. If the damage is only $3,000 or so they will just pay it themselves. The more accidents they report, the higher their annual insurance premiums will go.

So that's about it. You can't expect a new car but you can expect that the car will be repaired to your complete satisfaction and you should at least ask for "diminished value" compensation. In your case, it doesn't sound like the damage was very extensive but you don't know unless you inspect it yourself. Maybe 1,000 GBP in diminished value compensation would be appropriate? If the damage is reported, as it would be over here, then the car is worth less. Expect your dealer to push back hard on this request. Just be polite but firm and demand to talk to the insurance company directly.

Good luck!

Last edited by Ninong; 09-25-2015 at 01:16 AM..
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      09-25-2015, 05:09 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ninong View Post
If you're talking about that AutoBild article that's being published Friday, Sept. 25th, it's mostly BS. They have already issued two "clarification" statements that amount to a retraction.

Did AutoBild test the X3 xDrive 20d in question? No.

They relied on a report from the ICCT. Did the ICCT test it? No.

The ICCT received a report from Emissions Analytics, a testing outfit in the UK. So did Emissions Analytics perform an exhaustive series of scientific road tests to reach their results? No. The results reported are based on one X3 xDrive 20d that they say tested excessive NOx emissions over a single one-hour road test. No details about that one-hour road test. Was it uphill?

AutoBild has been issuing one clarification statement after another since then. They said it was never their intention to accuse BMW of manipulating their engines. They said there is no evidence that BMW manipulated their engines or employed a defeat device like VW used. In total, three different clarifications from AutoBild trying to walk back this article that was pre-released Thursday.

Now, let's talk about your situation with the dealer's employee crashing your X3 into another car. I can only tell you how this works in the US. I don't know if it's the same in the UK.

In the US, when you leave your car with the dealer for repairs or service, you are "entrusting" it to him. From that point on he is responsible for it with the exception of any valuables you may have left in the car, which is why there are usually warning notices posted asking you to please remove all personal items from the car. In other words, in the US you can't call the dealer back the following day and say you just discovered that the $20,000 Rolex you left in the glove box is missing.

In the US, if your car is damaged while in the dealer's care it is covered by the dealer's garage owner's insurance. Accidents happen. That's why we have insurance, including your dealer. In the US, the dealer would immediately apologize and offer to provide you with a loaner car. Make sure you are satisfied with the repairs. I would suggest you ask to see the car to inspect the extent of the damage yourself. After all, it is your property. You have every right to see it. Take pictures of the damage for your records.

Report this incident to your insurance company. Explain exactly what happened and that the dealer is taking care of the repairs and is providing you with a loaner car.

Inspect the car carefully after it is finished. A careful inspection would include viewing it from underneath while it is elevated on a lift. If possible, take a friend with you who is experienced in the car business in any way at all.

As far as the fair market value of any car after it has had body work done to it is concerned, it drops in value compared to a car that has never been repaired. How much it drops depends on the amount of the damage. In the US, if the accident was your fault, you just keep your mouth shut and don't ask for "diminished value" compensation. If the accident was the other guy's fault and it's his insurance company that is paying for the repairs, you insist on "diminished value" compensation. In the US you would be dealing with a claims adjuster hired by the other guy's insurance company. When the adjuster tries to get you to sign a complete release, you simply tell him that you expect to receive x-amount in "diminished value" compensation because the car is now worth less.

Over here, if the accident was the other guy's fault, you are in the driver's seat. The insurance company desperately wants you to sign a complete release so that you can't hit them with a personal injury lawsuit 364 days after the date of the accident claiming your back hurts. Over here you have one year to file for personal injury damages following an accident.

So over here what usually happens is that the adjuster will usually offer to pay you a token amount for any injury you may have suffered, even if just a sore back for a day or two, just to get you to sign the release. Typically they will say they're adding maybe $500 for your "pain" and distress, or something like that. Of course that doesn't apply in your case because you weren't even in the car. However, over here at least, you could still demand "diminished value" compensation. Your dealer will almost always tell you that isn't possible and that's when you tell him you will need to talk directly to the insurance company. Incredibly, over here many dealers do not report claims to their insurance company unless there is very significant damage. If the damage is only $3,000 or so they will just pay it themselves. The more accidents they report, the higher their annual insurance premiums will go.

So that's about it. You can't expect a new car but you can expect that the car will be repaired to your complete satisfaction and you should at least ask for "diminished value" compensation. In your case, it doesn't sound like the damage was very extensive but you don't know unless you inspect it yourself. Maybe 1,000 GBP in diminished value compensation would be appropriate? If the damage is reported, as it would be over here, then the car is worth less. Expect your dealer to push back hard on this request. Just be polite but firm and demand to talk to the insurance company directly.

Good luck!
Ninong, Thank you very much for your informative reply, which helps me to get some perspective on the whole issue. I have done my duty in informing my insurance company and although I did not go and view the car, I got the dealer to send me photos.

The damage at first glance looks light, but as the service manager told me, there is light damage to a lot of parts and all of the parts are bolt-on parts. I.e. hood, front grills, front bumper, front fenders and both adaptive xenon headlamp units. I have been assured that there is no damage beyond these parts. Their insurance assessor has examined the car and the BMW engineer has made a report (a copy of which I will try and obtain). The dealership is fairly large and I tend to trust them - I have been going to them for 20 years.

I am sincerely hoping that the work will be as good as promised. I have in writing that they will restore the car to pre-accident condition. I have told them that I have a series of high resolution photos of the car providing proof of pre-accident condition and I will refer them to their statement and also show them the photographs should the repair in any way not be to my full satisfaction.

I will insist on some form of compensation, because apart from the fact that I have been very stressed about it, I don't really expect the car to be as good as it was. Diminished value compensation is a good idea, with my other idea being a very good trade-in deal/discount on a new car.

Thanks for posting the information about the diesel emissions! This is something I will need clarification on before I can consider buying another diesel BMW.

My preferred outcome is for my car to be restored to mint condition again and for me to be able to forget or live with the fact that it has had a crash.
Thanks again Ninong!
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      09-28-2015, 08:37 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by healeydays View Post
To do that much damage, he must have been moving at a pretty good clip.
I had an accident last year, I tapped a car that turned in front of me (not my fault) anyway I was at the end of the ABS, and the speed difference was very likely something like 5mph..
Still had to change the whole front bumper assembly and one side. It just /crumbled/ -- in comparison the woman's car old ford K had no visible mark on it...

I didn't pay anything of course, she admitted turning onto a 40mph road without checking is not such a good idea, however there was >4000GBP repairs on my car...
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      09-28-2015, 08:57 AM   #35
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I had an accident last year, I tapped a car that turned in front of me (not my fault) anyway I was at the end of the ABS, and the speed difference was very likely something like 5mph..
Still had to change the whole front bumper assembly and one side. It just /crumbled/ -- in comparison the woman's car old ford K had no visible mark on it...

I didn't pay anything of course, she admitted turning onto a 40mph road without checking is not such a good idea, however there was >4000GBP repairs on my car...
To quote from BMW, they said that minor damage has been caused to several major parts. When I saw the photos of the car, the only obvious damage was a slight fold in the front lip of the bonnet. The wings are slightly bowed (which you cannot see from the photos) and the plastic brackets on both headlamp units is cracked plus a scrape on the front bumper. I can see how a repair cost can easily rise above £4k! BMW also replace parts rather than repair them and that is not cheap!
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      09-28-2015, 09:35 AM   #36
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Slightly off topic but, I've got a minor scrape on my rear bumper + a scratch on the door that can be buffed out. I asked BMW to quote for repairing them.... £800
Saw a mobile spray repair guy repairing a Porsche- he quoted me £300
A friend who is spray repairer (but very busy) offered to repair for ~£200

I've paid for the BMW extended warranty but I wouldn't use the dealer for any other repairs outside of the warranty. They are just too expensive.
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      11-01-2015, 06:14 AM   #37
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I have my car back..... 7 weeks after the dealer crashed it!

I didn't think it was possible, but I am actually happy with the result as they have done a first class job in my opinion. I would prefer that it hadn't been crashed in the first place, so I will try and get a better deal from them when I come to trade it. Not quite sure how this can be accomplished, but I will give it a go!
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      11-03-2015, 01:10 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ianfp
I have my car back..... 7 weeks after the dealer crashed it!

I didn't think it was possible, but I am actually happy with the result as they have done a first class job in my opinion. I would prefer that it hadn't been crashed in the first place, so I will try and get a better deal from them when I come to trade it. Not quite sure how this can be accomplished, but I will give it a go!
Delighted for you Ian
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      11-03-2015, 04:16 PM   #39
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Delighted for you Ian
Thanks Andy, I appreciate that!

I have been told that I will be looked after in respect of a deal on a new car.

I will see it to believe it as they have not been generous when I have tried to negotiate in the past!.
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      11-04-2015, 08:08 AM   #40
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So to sum it up, the dealer wrecked your car and you got nothing for it.
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      11-04-2015, 08:15 AM   #41
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      11-04-2015, 10:54 AM   #42
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Delighted for you Ian
+1 Glad you've got your car back and are happy with the repairs. Now you can get back to enjoying driving your X3.
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      11-04-2015, 05:28 PM   #43
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+1 Glad you've got your car back and are happy with the repairs. Now you can get back to enjoying driving your X3.
Thanks Cobstar - it looks good and drives like the 15000 mile car that it is.
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      11-05-2015, 12:55 PM   #44
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Thanks Cobstar - it looks good and drives like the 15000 mile car that it is.
But underneath, its a mess
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