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      01-24-2014, 07:33 AM   #45
nikolaig
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Same problem for me (Brossard, QC, Canada). My wife got stuck at the school on Dec 17th 2013 and for the second time just two days ago. First time the car has spent 3 days at the dealership and all I got back is the lousy story about the "battery and poor driver profile". Initially I bought the story and started charging the car like crazy, but later on I have learned enough to conclude that it was all BS. Now the car is at the dealership, waiting for the backordered part, I have to use a loaner. And while waiting for the car to get fixed I am working with an attorney...I am not keeping this car and for sure this is the last bimmer in my family. I need the car that actually runs.

Should we try to organize a class action against BMW?
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      01-24-2014, 09:03 AM   #46
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I wouldn't support a class action at this point.

From my perspective (based on the contact I have with my dealership), I believed they've recognized this to be a systemic problem (i.e. design issue) and are working on it. I am giving them the chance to resolve the issue. I might feel differently if I was the only one experiencing this issue but I'm not and I do think that BMW is treating this is as a very serious issue. If its left unresolved I might have issues as well but I'll cross that bridge when/if it comes.
If you don't think your dealership or BMW is handling this appropriately give BMW Canada a call. I did, we had a good conversation and they understand where I stand on this. The more people that do this the better they realize the extent of the issue.

I have some issues with class actions as the biggest benefactor from going this route is the lawyer running. I don't have a lot of respect for class action lawyers and don't want to help fill their pockets.

Darcy
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      01-24-2014, 09:21 AM   #47
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the more I read, I kind of feel more comfortable that I'm not the only one having the problem. I am jotting down notes as all the possible causes for the problem as I will bring it to the dealership in 2 weeks. I don't live near the dealership and I have to drive 1.5 hours to Ottawa to try to get it fixed. Knowing the "service" people at dealership and me being a female, I know they would try to sell me the " you don't drive enough" theory to my problem and not do anything to fix.
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      01-24-2014, 09:33 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by momo28 View Post
the more I read, I kind of feel more comfortable that I'm not the only one having the problem. I am jotting down notes as all the possible causes for the problem as I will bring it to the dealership in 2 weeks. I don't live near the dealership and I have to drive 1.5 hours to Ottawa to try to get it fixed. Knowing the "service" people at dealership and me being a female, I know they would try to sell me the " you don't drive enough" theory to my problem and not do anything to fix.
Have them the call the Dilawri dealership in Regina if you think they are giving you the runaround. Or maybe even call them yourself.
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      01-24-2014, 01:32 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by darcyb62 View Post
Have them the call the Dilawri dealership in Regina if you think they are giving you the runaround. Or maybe even call them yourself.
thanks, I may need to do that to convince them.
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      01-24-2014, 01:50 PM   #50
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Latest update:

They've been able to identify the root cause of the problem. There is a relay in the PDM module and they've found that a build of as little as 5 microns of water on the relay will prevent it from firing. (How they measure 5 microns is beyond me.) The PDM is actually provided by Panasonic and they actively participated in the testing in Thompson.

There was some thought that sealing the breather might be a resolution but doing that would potentially cause other problems in hot weather conditions. (There is a reason it has a breather). Panasonic is to provide the fix but they really couldn't put any time frame around this other than there is an urgency to get it done.

I'll post as I hear more but I don't expect to hear anything until later next week.
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      01-24-2014, 02:17 PM   #51
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Good to hear.My X3 has been at the dealer since December 12th.Other than this problem the car has been flawless.I really like it.I am confident that once this is fixed the car SHOULD perform as advertised.I have a 2005 330ci ZHP coupe that I love,and other than usual maintenance it has been a great car.But it is never winter driven.My X3 is a 2013 Xdrive 35i.The dealership has been good throughout this process.I have a really nice loaner,but would like to have my car back.
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      01-24-2014, 02:42 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darcyb62 View Post
Latest update:

They've been able to identify the root cause of the problem. There is a relay in the PDM module and they've found that a build of as little as 5 microns of water on the relay will prevent it from firing. (How they measure 5 microns is beyond me.) The PDM is actually provided by Panasonic and they actively participated in the testing in Thompson.

There was some thought that sealing the breather might be a resolution but doing that would potentially cause other problems in hot weather conditions. (There is a reason it has a breather). Panasonic is to provide the fix but they really couldn't put any time frame around this other than there is an urgency to get it done.

I'll post as I hear more but I don't expect to hear anything until later next week.
thanks so much for the update. Sounds like they have found the root of the problem and if it is fixed, it may cause "overheating" in the summer? I have no idea as I failed every single science course at school
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      01-24-2014, 02:46 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by momo28 View Post
thanks so much for the update. Sounds like they have found the root of the problem and if it is fixed, it may cause "overheating" in the summer? I have no idea as I failed every single science course at school
The quick fix would have caused issues in the summer so they decided not to go that route and are pushing Panasonic for a true fix as opposed to a workaround fix that would probably result in summertime issues.
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      01-24-2014, 03:37 PM   #54
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Just gonna chime in.

Our pretty much fully loaded 2011 X3 has experienced the drivetrain malfunction twice in 2 weeks to the day and almost to the hour. Our dealership just called to let us know the part is back ordered and being re-engineered. 3-4 weeks out at best. The truck goes back in april. hopefully we get a loaner that is worth the lease we pay each month for this thing...
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      01-24-2014, 06:57 PM   #55
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Well, I was (somewhat) joking about the class action. Not enough time to deal with that and monetary loss may be difficult to measure.

What is really disappointing is that surely BMW should have done the extensive testing of their car in harsh weather conditions. Have they done it? How come that problem was not reproduced? Especially if it is "5 microns" I just do not believe that such a component as PDM, especially if it is NOT SEALED did not go through extensive environmental testing/certification, standalone, as module. It would be against the industry practice, I believe.

I hope they do not invent a part with integrated air conditioner for cooling and drying it. Although that would be typical for BMW And the fan on this module would die every 8 months and will be $400 to replace. And it will be exactly like $2 cooling fan from China but with proprietary BMW connector And those who keep the car outside would be labeled as "poor owner profile" and denied the warranty coverage for the part

Also there is something different I hear from my dealer. They are saying that they are getting the redesigned part, which is expected to fix the problem. Which sort of implies that it is available. Somebody is lying here - or we can call it "miscommunication" to be polite

As for the "quality"...please do not get me wrong. I still believe that the service quality at my dealership is quite high. Not any worse than at Mitsubishi dealership, where I was getting very good care as well. BMW service is better, as I would actually expect! The problem is with the product, i.e. the car. Its quality is way below my expectations. After so many visits to the dealer in 5 months with all sorts of problems - rattling window, lack of antifreeze, "chassis 4x4 stabilization...", leaking door seal etc, now this major problem, then I also have that noisy sunroof. Sorry, this is really not what I paid for. And, yes, I agree that most likely I am among those X% (where X may be very low, why not) suckers who has got a lemon car, others do not have a fraction of the problems I faced. But it still sucks to be among these X% anyway! And, seriously, the trust I had in this car has almost evaporated. And, believe me, I was a very enthusiastic owner at the beginning and I can prove it with the bills showing the amount of money I have spend on various accessories for this car in few months after buying it. I would not spend anything like it if I was not intending to keep the car for a couple of years.
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      01-25-2014, 08:42 AM   #56
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I agree with the lack of testing in extreme weather conditions. It is a disappointing.

Regarding fix/redesign, I think it's the same thing. Panasonic has to come up with a fix to the PDM that works. It may be as simple as replacing the relay in the PDM or it could be something that involves a fairly extensive rebuild. I might be oversimplifying this (I do have an engineering background) but I would say that replacing a relay to one that isn't as sensitive to moisture buildup would be a redesign, albeit a small one.

I agree on the last part as well. At this point, my X3 has been in the shop longer than i've been able to drive it. Not a good way to start with BMW ownership.
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      01-25-2014, 09:07 AM   #57
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The dealer service rep called me to get some feed-back on my service

I told her to call back Wed - after we've gone through an upcoming 2 days of -25 temperatures.

She can determine after that if I'm still happy with the fix, or not
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      01-27-2014, 05:08 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Midwest X6 View Post
She can determine after that if I'm still happy with the fix, or not
I am wondering what does she expect. If the part, supposedly modified, is provided by BMW then it is BMW that is supposed to do all the testing - not the customer. I find it quite inappropriate to ask the customer if the fix works or not - at least when it comes to this sort of failure.

Did they explain to you the nature of the fix they have implemented?
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      01-27-2014, 07:11 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nikolaig View Post
I am wondering what does she expect. If the part, supposedly modified, is provided by BMW then it is BMW that is supposed to do all the testing - not the customer. I find it quite inappropriate to ask the customer if the fix works or not - at least when it comes to this sort of failure.

Did they explain to you the nature of the fix they have implemented?
a module replacement is what I was told.....
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      01-27-2014, 07:22 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Midwest X6 View Post
a module replacement is what I was told.....
They replaced my PDM (module),didn't last 100 miles before I got the same error.It was -30 celsius out,but only 100 miles?It's been at the dealers since December 12th.I wouldn't accept anything except the new modified module that they are coming up with now.Believe me it WILL happen again.Maybe not right away,but at some point.And you probably don't want it to be on your dime.Tell them to read this thread and that you want the new module that the BMW and Panasonic engineers are coming up with.Replacing a PDM that malfunctions with the exact same thing is NOT fixing the problem.

Last edited by stulove; 01-27-2014 at 08:26 PM..
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      01-28-2014, 06:05 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by stulove View Post
They replaced my PDM (module),didn't last 100 miles before I got the same error.It was -30 celsius out,but only 100 miles?It's been at the dealers since December 12th.I wouldn't accept anything except the new modified module that they are coming up with now.Believe me it WILL happen again.Maybe not right away,but at some point.And you probably don't want it to be on your dime.Tell them to read this thread and that you want the new module that the BMW and Panasonic engineers are coming up with.Replacing a PDM that malfunctions with the exact same thing is NOT fixing the problem.
That's exactly my concern I told the guy that according to other's experience the replacing of the module does not help and the problem reoccurs. Maybe they hope that the winter will be short?

And just as an attempt to protect myself against the BS about "fixing the problem with the replacement of the old module" I have filed the complaint to Transport Canada explaining, to my best knowledge, the details of this SAFETY issue. Hopefully that will trigger an official recall - in this case BMW at least will be forced to replace these modules with the redesigned ones. And if TC ignores it, then that will be the reason to get to know the local MP
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      01-28-2014, 02:05 PM   #62
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Just got a call from BMW. They have replaced the PDM for the same one. They claim that the old part was defective. Looks like they take the protective measures to get the cars out as quickly as possible regardless of the end result. So, looking forward to another cold morning in the dead car soon.
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      01-28-2014, 03:44 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nikolaig View Post
Just got a call from BMW. They have replaced the PDM for the same one. They claim that the old part was defective. Looks like they take the protective measures to get the cars out as quickly as possible regardless of the end result. So, looking forward to another cold morning in the dead car soon.
That is EXACTLY what they told me when they replaced mine.It didn't last 100 miles in the cold -30C weather.I talked with the dealer today regarding mine and was told that they are still waiting to hear from BMW Canada as to when the new modules will be ready.They told me to just keep using the loaner,which is pretty nice but still not the car I paid for.So tell the dealer to talk to BMW Canada about this.They know well that this is not a total fix.They are just hoping it doesn't get extremely cold and it won't happen soon.They are well aware about what is happening and about the testing that went on in Thompson Manitoba last week to fix it.
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      01-28-2014, 05:16 PM   #64
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Got the car back. Considering that I have made a few post talking about the issue recently + requested that BMW buys it back they were rushing to get it out of the shop. Funny, just last Thursday they did not even have the tracking number on the new PDM. And on Monday it was installed Miracle. I asked the straight question if they have installed the new part or the same one - the answer was "the same". They claim that the old PDM was defective.

Interesting - the service invoice mentions "PUMA 56461584". Anyone has an idea what is it?

Also, BMW customer service has refused to even discuss the buyback. I guess they take advantage of the lack of lemon laws in Canada, they have enough troubles with that in USA, I think Not even apologizing for real for the crap they have sold, just standard "I truly apologized for the frustration you have with your vehicle". Hahaha, you was stupid enough to pay us - you are screwed, we have won

Well, that how much they value their image in Canada, I suppose. Surely will tell the story to my dentist in details when I see her

My biggest concern (apart of getting rid of that lemon - that's the lawyer's job now) is that this car will die again soon enough and either me or my wife will be stuck again in an ultimate but ultimately unreliable driving machine.
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      01-30-2014, 02:03 PM   #65
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I just got an email to complete a satisfaction survey for the purchase of my new BMW X3.

How do you think I responded?
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      01-30-2014, 04:02 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darcyb62 View Post
I just got an email to complete a satisfaction survey for the purchase of my new BMW X3.

How do you think I responded?
Bet you need "extra room" to comment on the specifics of the problemS
p.s. have you got your vehicle back?
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