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      08-25-2014, 09:17 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kozzi View Post
+1

Excluding Eco Pro Mode, I don't understand the issues people are having with acceleration lag. Never had an issue in my 2011 and none so far in my 2015.

Driving in Comfort Mode and want to pass? Tap left paddle once and gas it. Instant power. You are gone. Coming to an intersection to make a quick left? Downshift as you approach and gas thru the turn. Transmission will return to D on it's own in Comfort Mode, redline in Sport Mode depending on the amount of throttle pressure (before it changes gears) and in Sport+...you are on your own lol. Basically what I'm trying to say is USE that 8 speed. That's why it's there and a huge reason the F25 is such a fun drive.

Just finished the break-in, changed the oil and reset the transmission. This thing is a blast. Definitely heavier at the wheel than my 2011 SAP, more balanced at the front and noticeably faster.
Dude, I respect the fact you aren't having any throttle lag issues, but I know how to drive a car and a switchable auto, it's not too complicated, that's not the issue. I've simply never owned another car in 25 years of driving that gave a short pause after throttle pressure. It's a problem, period. The fact some have it and some don't points to a flaw or faulty part. I promise if you'd experienced the issues I and others have mentioned you would alter your views on the car, and not in a good way.
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      08-26-2014, 07:19 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kdog26372 View Post
... I've simply never owned another car in 25 years of driving that gave a short pause after throttle pressure. It's a problem, period. The fact some have it and some don't points to a flaw or faulty part...
I searched 're-mapped accelerator pedal calibration' online. Some of the hits were interesting. Although the first link details Cobb Tuning discussing 'throttle mapping' within the Mazdaspeed3 community, it would seem the 'Drive-by-wire' architecture and technology should be structurally similar in concept -

http://www.accessecu.com/accessport/...S3%20v1.01.pdf

Another reference, also from Cobb, discusses the Ford Focus ST. The revision notes for the 3 Stages had some salient points, especially discussing the 'pedal response' -

http://static.cobbtuning.com/cobbtun...ST_BASE_13.pdf

Finally, a Formula 1 site discusses Engine Torque and Pedal Maps -

http://www.formula1-dictionary.net/e...orque_map.html

Somewhere in this mix the problem surely must reside...
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      08-26-2014, 12:01 PM   #25
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If you put the car in sport mode and the problem goes away, that usually means that the problem is in the transmission software.
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      08-26-2014, 01:57 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by The X Men View Post
If you put the car in sport mode and the problem goes away, that usually means that the problem is in the transmission software.
Nope, problem doesn't go away. Sport mode just makes you have to push throttle less to get more acceleration; does nothing for the pause, in fact it can make it worse because once the pause stops the acceleration is that much more jerky.
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      08-26-2014, 02:25 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by kdog26372 View Post
Nope, problem doesn't go away. Sport mode just makes you have to push throttle less to get more acceleration; does nothing for the pause, in fact it can make it worse because once the pause stops the acceleration is that much more jerky.
Like I said, your problem is likely something else other than the transmission. Our 35i is almost too jumpy when I gas it.
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      08-26-2014, 03:08 PM   #28
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2011 X3 35i

Had a significant lag in our 2011 35i, same long delay as mentioned by others here. This was a known issue with early X3s with the N55 engine. Problem was resolved with software update. No more hesitation, just smooth flow of power.

Probably a result of BMW trying for better fuel economy but certainly not desirable from a safety point of view. There are some after-market solutions available, but I'd try the dealer and a software update first.
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      08-26-2014, 03:22 PM   #29
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It would seem helpful if BMW had a factory-approved testing facility with an AWD dynamometer and software capable of analyzing the 'drive-by-wire' tree components shown in that 1st pdf link I shared. One would have a closed and reproducible system on which many X3s could be evaluated (including 'normal controls' to insure accuracy and precision). With computer processing ability nowadays, it doesn't seem a stretch to expect the graphs from suspect and 'normal' X3s to show variances. Granted not all of us could ship our X3s across the country, but if one center near a major metro area could be assigned the task of analyzing the issue, then perhaps corrective ideas could be disseminated to Service Centers worldwide, especially if the issues boil down to only a few sources.

Then again, maybe they have already done this and we just don't know about it.
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      08-26-2014, 03:26 PM   #30
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Sorry - was typing so didn't see Pitiful Old Man's comments before I submitted mine. I was under the impression all firmware and software updates were done with major maintenance milestones without the consumer having to ask for their vehicle to be updated?
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      08-26-2014, 04:12 PM   #31
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My car is a 2013, software should be up to date, as the people having the big issues with throttle were handled well before I got my car. Would be odd they'd still be shipping cars in mid 2013 with old/faulty software if it was already a known issue. Been to dealer for 2 service meetings, I'd think they'd apply updates if any were needed as well, they have applied software updates, but not sure if that included any throttle issues or not.
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      08-26-2014, 04:35 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kdog26372 View Post
My car is a 2013, software should be up to date, as the people having the big issues with throttle were handled well before I got my car. Would be odd they'd still be shipping cars in mid 2013 with old/faulty software if it was already a known issue. Been to dealer for 2 service meetings, I'd think they'd apply updates if any were needed as well, they have applied software updates, but not sure if that included any throttle issues or not.
Logically presented, and thanks for sharing, kdog26372. You have clearly tried to track down the root cause and already followed much of what has been suggested (transmission reset, Dealer/Service discussion, vehicle model [2013] two years beyond onset of issue, ...] so your input is much appreciated. And it would seem you are way above most of us in your automotive interests (reading your sig in which you mention the Cobb Stage I, which I had never heard of before today), which injects an authenticity of knowledge in this area.

As one who likes to see data, especially when it is reasonably attainable, it is frustrating to not be able to decipher what should be a rather straightforward diagnostic algorithm.
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      08-26-2014, 07:16 PM   #33
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I agree. I wish we had access to some of this data to see what trends there are. I wonder if there are multiple manufactures for specific key parts that could be causing this? Seems odd some of us have this issue, some don't.

Very frustrating, nonetheless. Happens multiple times a day...
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      08-27-2014, 11:44 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Well View Post
Logically presented, and thanks for sharing, kdog26372. You have clearly tried to track down the root cause and already followed much of what has been suggested (transmission reset, Dealer/Service discussion, vehicle model [2013] two years beyond onset of issue, ...] so your input is much appreciated. And it would seem you are way above most of us in your automotive interests (reading your sig in which you mention the Cobb Stage I, which I had never heard of before today), which injects an authenticity of knowledge in this area.

As one who likes to see data, especially when it is reasonably attainable, it is frustrating to not be able to decipher what should be a rather straightforward diagnostic algorithm.
Yeah the Cobb was for my 135i, it was a great handheld flash unit that you plugged into port under dash and took 10-15 minutes to install and take off and put back to stock. Now I've got a JB Stage 1 as which is a harness you plug into stuff to add some power. It's pretty easy, but not as nice as Cobb.

For the X3 I even bought a sprint booster thing to see if that helped with the lag issue. It does help with pedal feel, but didn't solve the lag problem. It is not an X3 issue, as I've searched other forums and it appears to be a sporatic problem to those with 8 speed tranny and mostly 35i engines. I'd generally have no complaints about this car except for this 1 annoying issue. I wish I had the tools or knowledge to get to the bottom of this, but unfortunately that's not the case. Multiple people have visited dealer and no solution to be had. I've got a year left on my owner's choice program and I'm just going to turn it in rather than buy it out, which was original plan.
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      08-30-2014, 10:14 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by riguy View Post
I have 4K on the odometer now and it's calling for a change at around 8000 miles. One thing I did try the other day was putting it in sport plus when I was going up an on ramp. In that case, I definitely felt a difference. I'm assuming the DSC/xdrive must be sensing wheel slip under normal circumstances. So...that's good. I still have the normal tip in that everyone is experiencing. I will try the reset soon.
I see that you have a 2015. Did you do any kind of engine break-in? So now you have no lag issues in Sport+ or is it not as bad as you tap through your own gears?
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      08-30-2014, 10:29 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kdog26372 View Post
Dude, I respect the fact you aren't having any throttle lag issues, but I know how to drive a car and a switchable auto, it's not too complicated, that's not the issue. I've simply never owned another car in 25 years of driving that gave a short pause after throttle pressure. It's a problem, period. The fact some have it and some don't points to a flaw or faulty part. I promise if you'd experienced the issues I and others have mentioned you would alter your views on the car, and not in a good way.
Dude, I respect the fact that you are having throttle lag issues and am only trying to help... and your right, it should have nothing to do with the 8-speed. It's wonderful that you know how to drive a car and a switchable auto at that! I never said you didn't. No need to get defensive.

IMO, your comments require more info. If you are having heavy throttle lag issues and you are tapping through your own gears in Sport and Sport+ mode, I would be at the dealer (you may be having problems with the ETC, ATC...etc.) screaming hell. It is obvious there is something wrong with your vehicle and it could be quite dangerous. You say it is a faulty part or flaw because some have it and some don't (and that it's sporadic), so I ask, why are you still driving it? Did you just get it? Was it new? If you took it to the dealer, are they not being helpful, can't find anything wrong etc. I ask because I am curious.

It would be helpful to me (and maybe others) if you could give specific examples of when it occurs so that others can try and replicate it in their X3s...mode, speed, gear, stomping pedal, rolling pedal, road conditions etc. Was this an issue before you installed the JB1 (I see it in your sig) or after? What break-in procedures (if new or none) did you follow? Basically anything that can pinpoint when and/or why it happens.

Again, just trying to help. That's what the these forums are for.
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      09-01-2014, 01:28 PM   #37
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Not being defensive at all. The lag is an annoyance, it's not like it pauses more multiple seconds. I thought I spelled out when issue occurs, but if not here goes...when driving at lower speeds and then change lane and attempt to quickly accelerate it's a 50/50 if it will have brief pause and then accelerate, when coming to what I'd call a rolling stop and then accelerate same deal, lastly when making a slow turn following near stop same deal.

Only seems to be in first 2 gears and also with changing lanes at those low speeds. It's almost like traction or stability control is taking over, but no lights indicating that not am I mashing pedal to floor, just normal pedal pressure. Problem exists with and without jb tune. Got car new, typical break in, nothing. special just didn't beat on it for a couple months. I've been to the dealer, others have too, no faults found. After warm up car is always in sport mode

I've searched other forums and it's not terribly uncommon elsewhere too. Not gonna spend time linking other's issues but simple google search for bmw throttle lag or hesitation lag gets plenty of results across multiple BMWs and years. My car exhibits similar traits as what pre-2012 cars did, problem is I've got a 2013 with current software.

It's not in a dangerous state, I know how' the car is going to react to my inputs, it's annoying and I'll move on to a new platform next Summer to resolve.
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      09-02-2014, 11:33 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kdog26372
Yes, the throttle hesitation is very annoying. Try to change lanes going 25 mph and accelerate, it will sit there for a second and then I'm off. Kinda dangerous really. Also happens when coming to stop sign and then try to go, always a lag. Will be a reason I probably switch to a different car next year. Never had issue with my 135i with 6 speed auto. I'm guessing it's a fuel consumption or traction control issue, but it is simply stupid. Tried tranny re-set, this did nothing.
To be Honest! In our 28i i just tap the gas and it goes flying (its a 2014 btw) but my only issue is that it lags the Symphonies i hear in the 35i model...
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      09-02-2014, 12:40 PM   #39
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I have a 2013 28i that is doing the hesitation thing. I took in for service and told them about the hesitation. They did a software update and the car drove like a new one for several days. No noticeable hesitation. However in a months time it is starting to do it again. I have theory about this. I used to drive quite a bit in econ pro mode on trips and all of a sudden it hit me that this hesitation that happens sometimes feels like maybe the car is somehow is getting confused and slipping in and out of not econo pro really but the throttle response part of it. That may sound far out but if you are in comfort mode and the throttle one time responds as you would expect then for no apparent reason it responds as if you have it in econo pro mode it would maybe exhibit the characteristics we, or at least I, am feeling. Does this make sense to anyone else?
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      09-02-2014, 02:57 PM   #40
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2013 35i here.

Lag is definitely present.

When I bought the car, I was test driving 2012's and there was a noticeable lag on starts (from a red light, etc). When I picked up my car, I had read all the rumblings on the forum about a software update and on starts it felt like it was resolved.

With more seat time, I've noticed that there still is a 0.5-1 sec hesitation when already rolling and hitting the throttle. The most noticeable scenario is when making a lane change from a lane that's stopped ahead, with traffic closing quickly in the left hand side view mirror. It's so predictable that I've adjusted my driving accordingly, hitting the pedal a fraction of a second earlier than I should have to.

My feeling is that it's drive by wire based and not transmission. Often when this happens, there's no discernible gear change.
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      09-02-2014, 07:31 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrhut View Post
I have a 2013 28i that is doing the hesitation thing. I took in for service and told them about the hesitation. They did a software update and the car drove like a new one for several days. No noticeable hesitation. However in a months time it is starting to do it again. I have theory about this. I used to drive quite a bit in econ pro mode on trips and all of a sudden it hit me that this hesitation that happens sometimes feels like maybe the car is somehow is getting confused and slipping in and out of not econo pro really but the throttle response part of it. That may sound far out but if you are in comfort mode and the throttle one time responds as you would expect then for no apparent reason it responds as if you have it in econo pro mode it would maybe exhibit the characteristics we, or at least I, am feeling. Does this make sense to anyone else?
I wonder if there is some sort of interaction between the transmission learning and econo pro mode. If you use econo pro, does the transmission recalibrate over time to become less responsive? If that were the case, resetting the transmission to restart its learning cycle would help.

The hesitation in our 2011 (no econo pro mode in those days) was clearly not due to the transmission since it occurred on starts as well as at partial throttle. It was greatly improved in sport/sport+ mode.

Seems like there might well be a slew (that's a technical term) of potential causes for throttle lags. Nonetheless, a 0.5 - 1 second delay is just not acceptable; it becomes a safety hazard. I'll bet that if the NHTSA called them out on it, BMW would solve the issue.
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      09-03-2014, 12:45 PM   #42
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I have not used the econo pro mode since the software update because I suspected that it might be recalibrating the transmission to a less responsive mode. Since the problem has returned I have intentionally driven more aggressive with hope that it would have some effect. I also did a transmission reset and it seems to not have helped. On my car the fact that it is not consistent is the part that really bugs me. As someone noted above when I need to accelerate quickly to change lanes or something it seems to decide to do it at that moment and then it may drive and accelerate like normal for awhile. I am just never sure if I am going to have the lag or not.
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      09-25-2014, 12:49 PM   #43
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I have a new 2015 LCI x28i non DHP with a lag issue. The problem is most noticeable when accelerating from a stop or when I've slowed down a lot then hit the gas (ie, braking into a low speed sharp city street corner then accelerating out). The issue exists in Sport, Comfort and Eco modes, as well as in manual mode. The length of delay is not consistent. Punching the pedal to the floor often shortens the delay, but not always. I'll be bringing it up with the dealer at it's first service. Overall the programming of the transmission seems somewhat sloppy. Sometimes when I go to pass someone the shift is violently abrupt, like I've dropped the clutch, at other times it's a smooth transfer. The auto transmission in our 4Runner is much more predictable.
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      09-25-2014, 04:43 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrhut View Post
I have a 2013 28i that is doing the hesitation thing. I took in for service and told them about the hesitation. They did a software update and the car drove like a new one for several days. No noticeable hesitation. However in a months time it is starting to do it again. I have theory about this. I used to drive quite a bit in econ pro mode on trips and all of a sudden it hit me that this hesitation that happens sometimes feels like maybe the car is somehow is getting confused and slipping in and out of not econo pro really but the throttle response part of it. That may sound far out but if you are in comfort mode and the throttle one time responds as you would expect then for no apparent reason it responds as if you have it in econo pro mode it would maybe exhibit the characteristics we, or at least I, am feeling. Does this make sense to anyone else?
This makes perfect sense to me and I even told my dealer that comfort mode is acting like eco mode. They checked it out and said everything is as it should be! I am not convinced! I wonder if the programing of the gear box software can be altered in coding?
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