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      05-04-2011, 01:19 PM   #89
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Really sorry this has happened, but why not take it back and then meet the requirement for lemoning it? Most likely BMW will just buy it back and then they'll fix it {when they figure it out} and resell it as a CPO.

Why torture yourself with this mechanical nuisance?
As I am sure you have said, these are pretty complex new machines that are bound to have some glitches.

I would just settle this as fast as possible and either order a new one or wait a bit for the first year's bugs to be ironed out.
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      05-04-2011, 01:23 PM   #90
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Don't settle for lemoning the car, when and if that is available. Instead, level with your dealership. Ask for an X5 or a 535i with all the same options you have on your X3 for the same monthly payment (if financed or leased) as the X3 you're giving up. If they don't do it, threaten to inform BMWNA about the dissatisfactory, disobedient, and ineffective service department at Orland Park. Get your lawyer.
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      05-04-2011, 01:50 PM   #91
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I like juddholland's idea that you do need to be compensated for the huge hassle
after spending $50K {over or close to} for the X3 but if you don't want the suggested x5 or 5 series, then what?

If it were me,
I'd opt for a new one at a significantly better price {a few thousand less than the previous deal} and they provide me with a new BMW loaner during the wait.

Or, if i were done with BMW then I've voted with my wallet and I'd buy something else with cash.

My bottom line is life is too short to waste on this.

Now, if none of the speculative cures are actionable then it sucks and you may have to lower your expectations.
I just don't think a fight with a giant corporation is an option unless there are multiple plaintiffs with the common problem.

Again, just my unsolicited 2 cents. Good luck and keep us apprised of the latest.
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      05-04-2011, 02:40 PM   #92
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Okay, so...what are you hoping they will do? And if they offer a "fix" or what they think is a fix, will you take it to the same dealer? Would you want another X3? Just wondering what your hope is now or what would make this right in your mind. I would be calling all.day.long
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      05-04-2011, 03:03 PM   #93
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I also had the routine drive and receive errors....It happened almost every day while not driving on the high way from the day I bought the car.

Anyhow, its up to you if you would like to suggest what fixed my car. It makes very little sense but the fact is, it fixed my car.
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      05-04-2011, 05:59 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lotus7 View Post
Have consulted with counsel. To meet the requirements of the Illinois "lemon" law takes (4) tries by the dealer or (30) days of loss of use of the car, so I have to take it back at least (2) more times. It takes specific written steps and written notification to the dealer and the manufacturer that the "lemon" law is being invoked and often results in a mediation process to determine the value of use of the car already received (the law does not require them to just replace the car or give the full (new) value). If the company chooses to fight it, which they usually do, it can be a 6-month or more painful process. As I said, I don't have time for the hassle. It's only fair to give BMWNA a chance to get it fixed correctly. I think the problem is an incompetent, and not trustworthy dealer service dept. working with a "engineer" contact who does not understand the problem and is just wasting everyone's time by taking "shots in the dark".

Haven't sent or posted any photos YET because I don't believe it will help me get connected with someone at BMWNA who knows what they're doing and wants to help.
Yes, Illinois has one of the weaker lemon law statutes, so many cases are filed under the federal Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act instead. This is a much more streamlined process. Even with Subaru fighting and delaying wherever possible I got a good resolution in 3 months.

My theory was to hope for the best but plan for the worst. During that time I gave the dealership and Subaru every chance to make it right.

If it were me in that spot again, I would immediately start the process and see what happens first…a fixed car or a new car. To prolong filing is to prolong the annoyance.
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      05-05-2011, 01:32 AM   #95
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IMO, this is a customer service issue with BMWNA. Switching dealers wouldn't help lotus, as they all have to get approval from BMWNA before they can do anything to his car.

I'm not even sure it's a lemon yet, as it doesn't sound like they've taken a serious attempt at fixing the issue. Reflashing the car as they've done obviously isn't going to help.

At this point, I'd seriously consider filing a report with the NHTSA. Or at the very least threatening BMWNA with this. If they get enough complaints, they will open an official investigation.
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      05-05-2011, 07:31 AM   #96
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Be sure to post about this on their Facebook page where lots of people will see it: http://www.facebook.com/BMWUSA?ref=t...=wall&filter=1 There is someone that usually follows up on complaints on the page. Her email addy is megan@bmwusa.com

Keep us posted.
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      05-05-2011, 09:26 AM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lotus7 View Post
Since this is clearly a safety related issue, I've already filed a DOT and NHTSA formal complaint. Have a case number and they are checking for other similar complaints.

I'm hoping to get far enough into the BMW system to be noticed by someone who knows enough to diagnose and fix the problem.

The last message from BMWNA customer service (5-days after my initial phone call) was that they were still investigating the complaint.

This error message is a general failure warning, and I suspect that it can be triggered by several different sources. It may very well be a internal transfer case component as was juddhollands car and several others, it could be something like the throttle position sensor as in KingKong's case (although we don't share the "parking brake triggering" so conditions are different), or it may be an intermittent wheel speed sensor or possible just electrical noise getting into the CPU. I don't know and obviously am in no position to dictate to BMW how to fix the car. However, if they do come up with what sounds like a reasonable fix, I won't bring the car back to my original dealer because they have blatantly lied to me and went ahead with the wheel/tire change (which, of course, did nothing) after I clearly told them twice that they did not have my permission to do that under any conditions. The car is, after all, my property. The dealer received full payment on delivery. It’s not theirs to do with whatever they please.

What I won't tolerate again is them taking (11) days to put in less then (1) hour, total on the car and then proposing to do something that is technically unreasonable and just another time-wasting "shot in the dark". It’s insulting to my intelligence, and totally unacceptable.

I simply want them to assign someone to the car who knows the systems, and actually follows a logical path to finding the true cause of the problem. So far all they’ve done is to clearly demonstrate their incompetence, and waste my, and their own time. I don’t care if they spend another (2) weeks on the problem as long as they’re actually working on the car, not waiting for (48) hour turn around emails that then don’t provide any useful guidance.

My issue is not that the car has a component or software failure. I half-expected to have some issues appear with a brand new model and have gone through similar situations with other "new" models in the past. My issue is strictly with the way BMWNA is handling this.

BMWNA's apparent policy, as far as I can tell, is to absolutely NOT allow the dealer's service department to communicate with any other dealerships who have already repaired similar problems, or to let the service technicians actually speak with engineering level corporate people. Instead, they are made to wait days for email step by step instructions in a one-way, strictly "top-down" process that reminds one of the way the US military worked during the Civil War. It’s really rather sad, especially for the front line service guys/gals.
Kudos. I'm no shrink, but this is the most definitive explanation about your anger you have written. I'm glad you took the time to write it. I hope that BMW reads these forums for their own sake.
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      05-05-2011, 10:03 AM   #98
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Originally Posted by Radioactive View Post
Kudos. I'm no shrink, but this is the most definitive explanation about your anger you have written. I'm glad you took the time to write it. I hope that BMW reads these forums for their own sake.
Doubtful. Hope this gets resolved for Lotus in a way that we can all have a sigh of relief. Time to see what BMW is really made of. Well, that's what I'm waiting to see anyway...
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      05-05-2011, 12:01 PM   #99
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Originally Posted by MrsAdams2007 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Radioactive View Post
Kudos. I'm no shrink, but this is the most definitive explanation about your anger you have written. I'm glad you took the time to write it. I hope that BMW reads these forums for their own sake.
Doubtful. Hope this gets resolved for Lotus in a way that we can all have a sigh of relief. Time to see what BMW is really made of. Well, that's what I'm waiting to see anyway...
Hey everyone. Let's remember the OP of this thread--me.

I am extremely disappointed in BMW not being very tactful or responsible regarding Lotus' car, however my problem was the same as his, and BMW was very on point when it came to finding a solution. My car is entirely fixed. The only problem with timing was that my dealership lied to me, and shipping took a while.

But for your sigh of relief, if nobody was paying attention before--the problem is a faulty transfer case. When they replaced my transfer case, the problem disappeared. So you can breathe easy knowing there IS a solution. The only matter is getting BMW to approve it across the board, so part replacement is quick and painless.
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      05-05-2011, 12:14 PM   #100
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Originally Posted by Lotus7 View Post
..... strictly "top-down" process that reminds one of the way the US military worked during the Civil War. It’s really rather sad, especially for the front line service guys/gals.
Heavens! You must have been around the block a few times!
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      05-05-2011, 12:16 PM   #101
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Heavens! You must have been around the block a few times!
.....didn't mean to trivialise your problem, I do feel your pain but couldn't resist.
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      05-05-2011, 12:22 PM   #102
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@juddholland....didn't mean to take anything away from your situation. I think you have handle this incredibly well, a lot of patience and determination. My comments were two fold. First, I thought that Lotus 7 summarizing his situation was good for him and defined the problem not as the car but the company. Second, BMWNA from the top down needs to improve their service and sales departments.
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      05-05-2011, 03:53 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by juddholland View Post
Hey everyone. Let's remember the OP of this thread--me.

I am extremely disappointed in BMW not being very tactful or responsible regarding Lotus' car, however my problem was the same as his, and BMW was very on point when it came to finding a solution. My car is entirely fixed. The only problem with timing was that my dealership lied to me, and shipping took a while.

But for your sigh of relief, if nobody was paying attention before--the problem is a faulty transfer case. When they replaced my transfer case, the problem disappeared. So you can breathe easy knowing there IS a solution. The only matter is getting BMW to approve it across the board, so part replacement is quick and painless.
Really? Touchy, touchy. I guess we should have started a new thread where we could talk about the fact that Lotus7's issue hasn't been resolved. Wow.
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      05-05-2011, 06:08 PM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrsAdams2007 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by juddholland View Post
Hey everyone. Let's remember the OP of this thread--me.

I am extremely disappointed in BMW not being very tactful or responsible regarding Lotus' car, however my problem was the same as his, and BMW was very on point when it came to finding a solution. My car is entirely fixed. The only problem with timing was that my dealership lied to me, and shipping took a while.

But for your sigh of relief, if nobody was paying attention before--the problem is a faulty transfer case. When they replaced my transfer case, the problem disappeared. So you can breathe easy knowing there IS a solution. The only matter is getting BMW to approve it across the board, so part replacement is quick and painless.
Really? Touchy, touchy. I guess we should have started a new thread where we could talk about the fact that Lotus7's issue hasn't been resolved. Wow.
You misunderstand what I'm saying. I'm not saying "get out this is my thread." I am happy to have this conversation no matter where it is. I am not attacking you. I was just noting that there isn't a need to be concerned as to the problem with the car, as the solution does exist and this thread is my word-spreading medium.

I have a full appreciation for Lotus7's problem, and my heart goes out to him and anyone else who should encounter this misfortune, but I was just making sure you all understood that panic need not exist. The car is fixable, but it's going to take a few months before BMWNA is comfortable offering the same solution to all of it's dealers.

Sorry if I came off like a kindergartener, I just don't want anyone who reads this thread to not buy the car because they think this is the ultimate overlying unfixable ailment. God forbid the RX beats our beloved X3.
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      05-05-2011, 07:38 PM   #105
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What time are we leaving Lotus7? It is going to take me some time to get there so I will need to leave pretty soon!
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      05-05-2011, 07:47 PM   #106
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Originally Posted by Lotus7 View Post
Hey everyone - thanks for your support. I'm printing up the "Let's Overthrow the BMW Board" placards tonight and the X3 caravan to New Jersey leaves on Saturday morning. It won't be a "million man march" but we should get some attention.
I'll supply the Heinekens.
As much fun as getting drunk and driving to Jersey sounds, I fear our X3 caravan would soon be joined by paddy wagons and ambulances...

Last edited by xDrive35i; 05-05-2011 at 09:19 PM..
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      05-06-2011, 10:13 PM   #107
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Odd place for my first post.

I Have been viewing this forum for a while now (love it), and this thread in particular as I will pick up my mineral silver 35i tomorrow. Not exactly sure how I would handle it, but seems as though this method will harm the dealer most? Not sure how it works in Kansas but I would likely take the "lemon option" as I would not fault the dealer. They want it fixed, and get paid to fix it, but have their hands tied right now..

Won't make up for the frustration, but that way I would (hopefully) end up with a working X3, get the attention of BMW, and not harm the dealer.

hoping for the best
Don't be silly! Dealers are to be bombarded with complaints and requests. They are in the service industry. You just spent 60,000 dollars. If they aren't on their knees, they're doing it wrong.
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      05-07-2011, 08:32 AM   #108
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Originally Posted by juddholland View Post
Don't be silly! Dealers are to be bombarded with complaints and requests. They are in the service industry. You just spent 60,000 dollars. If they aren't on their knees, they're doing it wrong.
+1
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      05-07-2011, 08:49 AM   #109
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Having experienced similar fraustrations with other premium brands (mainly Mercedes) I continue to be disappointed by the low level of customer service I have experienced at so many dealers. Delayed cars. Repeated repair returns with the same fault. Lack of loan cars even for service visits. Sorry- we were too busy to spray wash your car. No replies to emails / calls. It is as if their monopoly allows them to get away with it. The tip I was given was look to see how many demo cars a dealer has. Those with the most at launch (I always look for more than 2) have got a better relationship with HQ and so may offer better discounts and be more worried by bad PR that could damage this. I have often bought up to 100miles away from home to get this edge. Has saved me thousands of £ and did again this time around. In my experience strong dealers also tend to have lower staff turnover- another clue to successful service. Sadly local servicing is convenient so returning to those with poorer service can be hard to avoid. Good service is out there. Just hard to find when it should be standard at the prices charged.*
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      05-08-2011, 08:28 PM   #110
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Thanks for the update Lotus. Keep us posted as to what happens after this attempt to fix it.....
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