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      04-27-2011, 04:32 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lotus7 View Post
I honestly believe that it's not a BMW problem or even not a problem with my specific dealership, but is just the way the automotive industry is evolving. All passenger vehicles are MUCH more complicated due to safety, emissions, performance and efficiency requirements. One can expect to see a small percentage of any product to have production defects. The issue is how the company deals with those defects. A fault like what we're seeing on the X3 can happen to any vehicle, and each new vehicle has it's share of both early, and then "late" problems.

I'm not blaming BMW's design - I think it's one of the best currently available - but I do question the way they're handling this specific case and the way they handled Judd's. he did eventually have his car repaired, but it should not have taken so long, and my repair should not be taking so long. One short phone call, instead of 24 to 48 hour email turnarounds would seem to be a better way to communicate.

I think my next step will be to begin writing BMW NA and telling them what I think about their fault correction process.
Good post. Agree with your assessment of the situation. Stay cool, man.
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      04-28-2011, 01:37 AM   #68
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It took as long as it did because the dealership lied about contacting BMWNA when I asked them. So that was one week, not to mention the week they had it the first time I brought it in. And then the next week I was on the phone with them for a while trying to get it together, and finally they called BMWNA who said shipping would take 7-10 days, once the part was made. So thats two and a half weeks, and then the part finally came. They said that it would be done on the day of the three week mark, but instead of 21 days total, it was about 25 days of waiting. If the dealership wasn't so full of shit, this wouldn't have happened. However, had they not pissed me off, I would not have the now always standing opportunity to leverage their irresponsible service department behavior whenever I want something.

BMWNA and BMWAG responded accordingly, and applied the correct remedy. If your problem comes back, Lotus, PM me, and I'll be sure to have Perillo give Orland Park a call regarding the issue and how it was fixed.
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      04-28-2011, 04:26 PM   #69
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Change all of the wheels???!!! Dear oh dear
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      04-28-2011, 04:47 PM   #70
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Lotus, best of luck. I really hope it does not come to that, but what you have described so far is abysmal service. Premium brand should mean premium service as well, and your account is truly hair-raising. I wish that joy comes back to you soon.
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      04-28-2011, 04:53 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lotus7 View Post
According to my Service Advisor, my X3 still has the ABS - 4X4 - SC error. After another 24 hour delay, the latest suggestion he received from the BMW "engineer" on this case was to try changing all four of the wheels/tires. When he phoned to tell me that's what they wanted to do, I baulked at the suggestion and told them to absolutely not touch the wheels.

It's absolutely asinine to think that a wheel diameter could be so far off that the wheel speed sensors would trigger an ABS fault during normal low-stress driving and that would occur ONLY every 400 to 700 miles. The expected wheel speed differences during normal driving can reach 5% or more while turning and even 10% differences should not trigger the ABS or SC systems. The car would have to have tires that were 3 or 4 sizes different to trigger anything, and then the fault would be constant, not a intermittent which occurs every (3) weeks.

My dealership service advisor was equally incredulous about the wheel/tire change suggestion and actually suggested that I call BMW NA.

I immediately phoned BMW NA Customer Service and expressed my concerns. The CS rep. said he would investigate the issue, which would take another 3 to 5 business days, and then get back to me.

For me this confirmed what I already suspected: That whoever the "engineer" is who is assigned to my case, he/she is not qualified to diagnose the problem and does not have any understanding of the fundamentals of how these systems work. If I worked for BMW service support I’d be embarrassed.

My last call was back to the dealership. I left a message on my service advisor's voicemail (he probably saw my phone number on his caller ID and wouldn’t answer the call) letting him know that if this was not resolved to my satisfaction within (5) days I was demanding my vehicle back and planning on painting the words "LEMON" on each side of it in big letters and parking it in prominent places around our local village every day. That, in fact is exactly what will happen.

I'd rather walk than let this “Black Comedy” go on any further. Don't worry, I'll publish LOT'S of pictures!

Keine Freude
Do you have a different BMW dealer that you can take it to for a shot at more knowledgable service people? If you Lemon it, are you going to get another? I feel sick for you
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      04-28-2011, 06:26 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lotus7 View Post
The story I'm getting from the local dealership (which I fully believe based on everything I've seen) is that the BMW service style is strictly "top-down" management. The front-line service people are not allowed to give their opinions. My Service Advisor was not allowed to try or do anything without getting permission (confirmed via email) from someone "higher up" first. I don't believe going to another dealership would change anything.

I've been treated better during the ownership of FIATs, (yes I'm that old), VW's, Audi's, Toyota's, Honda's, Subarus, Chevy's, Ford's and other cars I can't even remember.

The car will not be legally "lemoned", but may very well be painted with a large yellow citrus fruit and used to generate significant negative publicity for BMW. I can live with the intermittent fault happening every day, and BMW will have to live with the bad press. It's their choice now.
Why not lemon it?
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      04-28-2011, 07:31 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lotus7 View Post
The story I'm getting from the local dealership (which I fully believe based on everything I've seen) is that the BMW service style is strictly "top-down" management. The front-line service people are not allowed to give their opinions. My Service Advisor was not allowed to try or do anything without getting permission (confirmed via email) from someone "higher up" first. I don't believe going to another dealership would change anything.

I've been treated better during the ownership of FIATs, (yes I'm that old), VW's, Audi's, Toyota's, Honda's, Subarus, Chevy's, Ford's and other cars I can't even remember.

The car will not be legally "lemoned", but may very well be painted with a large yellow citrus fruit and used to generate significant negative publicity for BMW. I can live with the intermittent fault happening every day, and BMW will have to live with the bad press. It's their choice now.
Hope everything works out for you lotus. I absolutely hate to hear how you've been treated to this point.

Your description of the service process sounds 100% correct based on my years of lurking this forum. Major issue crops up, and the SAs are powerless to do anything without the explicit approval of BMW corporate. Back during the beginning of the HPFP fiasco I was considering getting a 335i and elected to go with Infiniti instead because of this widespread issue that BMW was ridiculously slow to respond to. Guys in these forums had to wait months to get their cars fixed because of this.

Ultimately so many ppl had issues the pumps were on backorder nationwide.

If it weren't for the impending pressure of an ABC News expose story on the HPFP failures, I don't think BMW would've issued the recall last year. They saw the firestorm Toyota was under and didn't want a repeat situation to happen to them.

If you look in the F10/F11 forum, the big issue right now is cars pulling to the right. Multiple guys in that forum are on their second 5'er. Last I checked the thread was 18 pages long. You may want to get in touch with them via PM for tips on how they got BMW to buy their car back, after lots of work the original poster did have his car declared a lemon.

I really hope this issue doesn't afflict the X3 like some of the others I've seen over the years on these forums. I hope I don't end up regretting going from my perfectly reliable G35 to an X3 that spends more time at the dealership than my garage.
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      04-28-2011, 08:28 PM   #74
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What dealership are you going to? Do you know the Illinois Lemon Laws?



Is My Vehicle a Lemon?
In order to be covered by the Illinois Lemon Law, a vehicle must:

have a nonconformity that both substantially impairs the use , market value or safety of the vehicle and is not repairable by the dealer or manufacturer in at least four attempts for the same repair, or

be out of service for a total of 30 or more business days.

The Lemon Law DOES Cover: New Cars (purchased or leased)
Light Trucks and vans under 8,000 pounds
Recreational vehicles (excluding trailers)
Vehicles in their first 12 months or 12,000 miles, whichever occurs first
Vehicles purchased in Illinois

The Lemon Law DOES NOT Cover: Used Cars
Altered or modified vehicles
Motorcycles and boats
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      04-28-2011, 09:16 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carlili4190 View Post
Do you know the Illinois Lemon Laws?
I have (3) lawyers in my immediate family. I know ILL Statute 815.380.1 by heart (The New Vehicle Buyers Protection Act). I also know when I'm being given a run around by a manufacturer. This has nothing to do with the particular dealer.
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      04-28-2011, 10:16 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lotus7 View Post
I have (3) lawyers in my immediate family. I know ILL Statute 815.380.1 by heart (The New Vehicle Buyers Protection Act). I also know when I'm being given a run around by a manufacturer. This has nothing to do with the particular dealer.
Im curious about the dealer for my own sake... I live in IL as well
I want to make sure to avoid them
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      04-29-2011, 07:32 AM   #77
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I’m also in Illinois.

If we’re shopping at or have been using the same dealer, having a few people bring up the problems you’re having should help to put some fear into them that word is spreading.
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      04-29-2011, 10:45 AM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carlili4190 View Post
Im curious about the dealer for my own sake... I live in IL as well
I want to make sure to avoid them
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harplayr View Post
I’m also in Illinois.

If we’re shopping at or have been using the same dealer, having a few people bring up the problems you’re having should help to put some fear into them that word is spreading.
Folks, did you miss this part?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lotus7 View Post
This has nothing to do with the particular dealer.
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      04-29-2011, 11:14 AM   #79
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It would still be nice to know what dealer it is.
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      04-29-2011, 11:45 AM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Razel View Post
Folks, did you miss this part?
Odd place for my first post.

I Have been viewing this forum for a while now (love it), and this thread in particular as I will pick up my mineral silver 35i tomorrow. Not exactly sure how I would handle it, but seems as though this method will harm the dealer most? Not sure how it works in Kansas but I would likely take the "lemon option" as I would not fault the dealer. They want it fixed, and get paid to fix it, but have their hands tied right now..

Won't make up for the frustration, but that way I would (hopefully) end up with a working X3, get the attention of BMW, and not harm the dealer.

hoping for the best
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      04-29-2011, 12:20 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssn007 View Post
Odd place for my first post.

I Have been viewing this forum for a while now (love it), and this thread in particular as I will pick up my mineral silver 35i tomorrow. Not exactly sure how I would handle it, but seems as though this method will harm the dealer most? Not sure how it works in Kansas but I would likely take the "lemon option" as I would not fault the dealer. They want it fixed, and get paid to fix it, but have their hands tied right now..

Won't make up for the frustration, but that way I would (hopefully) end up with a working X3, get the attention of BMW, and not harm the dealer.

hoping for the best
As I did with my 2010 Subaru Outback lemon, if a situation like this occurs with my new X3 I’d just lemon it and move on rather than continue to drive a defective product that they can’t or won’t repair.
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      04-29-2011, 10:06 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssn007 View Post
Odd place for my first post.

I Have been viewing this forum for a while now (love it), and this thread in particular as I will pick up my mineral silver 35i tomorrow. Not exactly sure how I would handle it, but seems as though this method will harm the dealer most? Not sure how it works in Kansas but I would likely take the "lemon option" as I would not fault the dealer. They want it fixed, and get paid to fix it, but have their hands tied right now..

Won't make up for the frustration, but that way I would (hopefully) end up with a working X3, get the attention of BMW, and not harm the dealer.

hoping for the best
Welcome aboard! please post pics of your mineral silver if you can. I ordered the same and never seem to tire at looking at new pics. Congrats and enjoy!
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      05-03-2011, 10:08 AM   #83
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Any news on your situation, lotus?
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      05-04-2011, 01:19 AM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lotus7 View Post
After being at dealership for (11) days, still not repaired. X3 still has intermittent display fault. Insisted on reclaiming X3 against dealer's wishes.

Have phoned BMWNA and complained to customer service.
No resolution after (5) days. “Still investigating”
Sent Certified Express mail complaint letter to BMWNA, letter received in NJ yesterday.

Totally disgusted with BMW.

Looking at RX450h.
I won't be around to place a trash can next to your bed when you're disgusted with the barf-cream interior and barf-driving dynamics of the Lexus.
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      05-04-2011, 07:22 AM   #85
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I won't be around to place a trash can next to your bed when you're disgusted with the barf-cream interior and barf-driving dynamics of the Lexus.
No, I saw the wood on the steering wheel and wouldn't even drive it!

Keep us posted, lotus. I am so sorry this is happening to you and that gorgeous car!
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      05-04-2011, 11:43 AM   #86
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I had the exact same errors....get them to check the accelerator switch! I had a faulty one that had sparatic voltage. This caused the computer to not know if I am accelerating or slowing down etc. This fixed my problem.

I was able to trigger the errors by using the electric hand break. engage hand break. shut off car...turn on car...errors appeared.
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      05-04-2011, 12:25 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lotus7 View Post
So far all I've heard are various horror stories about the most popular BMW stores. The only one in the Chicago area that seems to be cautiously liked is the BMW Elmhurst store.
I can say this about Elmhurst BMW... They did a great job in getting the car I wanted and the price I wanted. I went to Laurel to try to get them down to a price I was quoted from another dealer because I honestly live 5 minutes from them and they flat out told me they didn't want my business. I go to Elmhurst BMW(~15 min away) and they did not only meet the price but beat it by a long shot. The guys there SO FAR have been nice
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      05-04-2011, 12:58 PM   #88
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Phew! I thought you were serious about the Lexus! Did u send photos to BMW with the lemons in the window? Please share with us.....ahhhh, the absurdity of all of this.
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