[stlgirl]

Well, I'm hoping to get a call from the dealer tomorrow so that I can pick up my X3. In the mean time, I've enjoyed driving my sporty little 328i loaner--beautiful blue exterior but with a not-so-hot butterscotch-like interior. I guess I shouldn't say that--I just wouldn't have picked that interior with the blue..not my taste.

Yep, the mechanic actually said FREON. I told my husband the whole story and he said the same thing: FREON???? I suppose it's just easier to say than HFC-134a?

As for the reliability issue, betto0515, don't worry. The good thing with these cars is that they have the 4yr/50K warranty. Of course none of us want to sit around in the dealership every other week getting things repaired, but I don't foresee that happening. I agree with Lotus. You kind of have to expect some of these glitches to pop up here and there and try to roll with it. I understand, though..it can be a little aggravating at times. I think I got spoiled because I never had any unscheduled maintenance issues with my 2003 325xi. On the other hand, when I was 16 years old, I had a lot of problems with a brand new Honda Accord--supposedly the most reliable (and probably most boring) machine on the planet.

Hang in there betto...

And thanks, Lotus, for your awesome posts. Wish I had just a millionth of your knowledge on cars!

[perto]

Freon is a trade mark of Du Pont and it'sstil commonly used as a word for refrigerant. After the Kyoto agreement, 134A will be phased out in 2012, in EU I think its banded after 2011. So maybe in the X3 it is HFO-1234yf who now be used.

[sfax]

Originally Posted by perto

Freon is a trade mark of Du Pont and it'sstil commonly used as a word for refrigerant. After the Kyoto agreement, 134A will be phased out in 2012, in EU I think its banded after 2011. So maybe in the X3 it is HFO-1234yf who now be used.

Freon is easier to remember than HFO-1234yf

Hoover is easier to spell and say than vacuum cleaner

[MA78]

Originally Posted by sfax

Freon is easier to remember than HFO-1234yf

Hoover is easier to spell and say than vacuum cleaner

My mechanics have always called it coolant. Which can also be confusing.

[jaymk5]

Originally Posted by Lotus7

Don't worry - Be happy!
Since modern vehicles, whether they're BMWs, Toyotas, Hondas, Audis or vehicle xxxx, typically contain upwards of 20 dedicated microprocessors and/or programmable logic arrays, several million lines of code, thousands of feet of cable, and components made in dozens of different countries, all assembled by robots, occasional errors and defective components are inevitable. I've owned Fiats (a first generation early 1973 X-1/9) that was dead reliable and a new Audi and a Jag that were constantly in for minor repairs. If you're lucky, you may be one of the 90 percent of new owners who have no problems and are delighted with their cars, if you're not, then its back to the dealer.

We (owners) want faster, more economical, more space efficient, safer cars but than worry about the added complexity we’re demanding.

Sony and Panasonic have reputations for making the most reliable consumer electronics ever produced, but if you read the reviews at any retail sales website, you will find plenty of irate owners who have had problems. The satisfied customers are not the ones who write complaints.

I understand the part where happy owners always do not post comments, but when things go wrong, people write a lot about it. Also I am looking at the number of vehicles(X3's) produced vs. number of complaints in this forum and the ratio is pretty low that makes me feel better. I also understand not all X3 owners are registered in this forum, which means we might have more owners with/without trouble which we don't have a way to figure out. Anyways I will hope for the best and be ready to tackle the other side as well.

Production Figures from bmwusfactory.com
Monthly Totals 2011
February: 20,797
Total X3 Units: 8,599
Total X5 Units: 8,683
Total X6 Units: 3,515

Originally Posted by Lotus7

Buying an early production version of anything carries a higher risk then buying a model that's been out for 3 or 4 years. At least with a company like BMW, the likelihood of a fix coming along quickly is very high, since the last thing the factory wants is a vehicle that is costing them tons of cash (profits) in warranty repairs.

Yes that's the main reason that I made my decision to buy a new production line vehicle from BMW. I would not have made this bold decision if it is from other manufacturer. Also since these vehicles come with the factory warranty for 4 years, technically we do not have to worry much except for the resale value (if vehicle proves to be a failure with lot of defects, then the chance of getting a decent resale is going to be slashed down a lot), which I do not think BMW will let happen.

Originally Posted by Lotus7

If the risk of owning a new X3 is too high for your comfort level, you might consider looking for a clean 1980 Honda Accord. I once owned one and it was as reliable as a hammer.
rant mode OFF!

All I want is a decently reliable car, by that I mean a car which occasionally gives me some issues and goes in for unscheduled maintenance work. I work in IT and I can very well understand how it is highly impossible to code something with no issues. But at the same time if the car makes me go to dealership every alternative friday then I will really be pissed off with BMW. Its not the matter of money or anything, its the matter of time and peace of mind, I would want to enjoy my car more, than worrying about when it is going to break next time. I hope we all wanted the same.

[stlgirl]

Okay further update. So, as you recall, the mechanic working on the car thought the a/c problem was going to be secondary to the factory not putting in the freon, coolant or whatever you want to call it. ACTUALLY, the problem turned out to be a leaking Schrader valve that is a part of the air conditioning system. They replaced it w/ a new one. So there it is.

As far as the sensor issue, the mechanic could not find a problem when he ran the diagnostics or when he eyeballed the actual sensor. So we'll see if it (the oil temp sensor) flips on again. Thanks for all the input everyone.

One last thing: when I was leaving the dealership today I was cut off by a guy in a 7 series who thought he was cooler than he actually is. I love driving BMWs---I don't love some (not all) BMW drivers.

[Nahoa]

Originally Posted by stlgirl

I love driving BMWs---I don't love some (not all) BMW drivers.

+1

[xDrive35i]

Originally Posted by Lotus7

In today's service departments, on modern electronically controlled vehicles, the diagnostic computer rules the service dept. To actually check the temperature sensor system would take a little time and require actually physically inspecting the sensor wires, measuring the oil temperature with a temp. probe and, of course, would take time. They probably won't be willing to spend the time unless the error light goes on again.

At 470 miles my own X3 triggered a really "scary" brake system failure warning - multiple red lights on the dash and a "Take the car to your dealer immediately and drive very slowly and carefully" on the iDrive screen. The brakes were fine and after stopping and restarting the car the warning cleared, and it has not recurred again. Another forum member had the exact same "brake error" warning occur multiple times and left his car at his dealer for (I believe) three days, they couldn't fine anything wrong and gave it back with no repair done.

That's me! Brought it in again today because the warning came up twice in one hour the other day. I don't care how many hundreds of dollars they have to spend on gas, I will not take my car back from them until they can either fix the glitch or prove to me that it is simply a computer issue which has no effect on the car's actual driving stability or safety. I want them to drive it until they figure it out. It's complete bullshit to say that "it's a new car and we haven't seen enough of it yet." Because I did my research and found that other people all across the BMW lineup since 2008 have been having this EXACT problem, even people with the same iDrive version since its 2011 upgrade. They know that it's a problem, but they don't want to try to figure out what's causing it. If I get into an accident because my brakes/4x4 decide to fail at the wrong time, I swear to god I'll sue my dealership for every even almost plausible charge.

So fuck it for now. I'm driving a 535i xDrive loaner yet again.

[jaymk5]

juddholland, you did the correct thing and I would do the exact same thing if I am you.
I am surprised service department gives this kind of answers, is it our problem that the x3 is fairly new, they should go figure out what is wrong, irrespective of its new or old, if they are not comfortable with the new system they should tell the supervisor to send them for some training or something with the people who built the new system. It does not make any sense to come to the customer and tell this system is fairly new and we are still learning it. My point is at whose cost they (service department) are learning this system? What if something goes wrong and customer end up in an accident. I hope they come up with a proper response to you. I will be watching this thread for updates. We all understand that problems will occur in a new system, its the matter of how BMW's service department handles them, if they are going to give the same kind of response to all the customers, then they are sure going to piss of many and loose business atleast in the SAV segment.

[Lotus7]

Originally Posted by juddholland

...If I get into an accident because my brakes/4x4 decide to fail at the wrong time, I swear to god I'll sue my dealership for every even almost plausible charge.
....

So glad you're standing your ground on this.

From my very limited, one time experience seeing this on my X3, I was sure it was a error in the warning system. Obviously, it could be anywhere in the complex system.

However, even if it's just an "error" in the reporting and display iDrive interface, it's a false alarm that will quickly desensitize any owner from having the correct response if a real brake system failure occurs. There is a real potential for a serious accident if that happens.

Since my one-time "error" occured at the exact instant I was driving under some high voltage cross-country power lines I thought it might be related to EMF interference. The sensors for the anti-lock brakes are magnetic and are the most likely component to be subject to EMF interference. That is especially disconcerting, since those same sensors are used as the source of information for the dynamic stability control system. That's why the AWD "falure" graphic also comes up when this "error" happens (at least that's what was displayed on mine).

This sounds like a potential NHTSA alert or recall situation. I've already reported this issue to the NHTSA
http://www.nhtsa.gov/Vehicle+Safety/Recalls+&+Defects
and suggest that anyone on this forum that has also seen this on their X3 do the same. Maybe if the NHTSA starts inquiring at BMW we will see some serious attention paid to the issue.

Note: The NHTSA complaint form does not have provision for listing the 2011 X3 as the reported vehicle. I used the 335i and then made it clear in the text box that the complaint was for a X3.

If that doesn't work, the next stage is a class action suit, which is actually pretty easy to file, and always gets press attention.

[stlgirl]

agree with these last 3 posts by judd, jay, lotus.
since my service people were kind of dragging their feet with regards to inspecting the actual sensor, I called BMW of North America to complain. they actually called my service manager and told him that the actual sensor needed to be looked at and that they wanted feedback so that they could follow up with me.
maybe some would think this is juvenile (me calling and essentially tattling on them) but then again, i sometimes think we females get the brush off/patronizing attitudes from some in the auto industry.

[Lotus7]

Originally Posted by stlgirl

... i sometimes think we females get the brush off/patronizing attitudes from some in the auto industry.

Although, I'm sure your comment is true, men also get "the brush off" as we all have experienced.

It's always an interesting situation that potentially becomes confrontational, when the customer knows more about the car than the Service Advisor. Sometimes it's better not to disclose all you know unless it's absolutely necessary to avoid getting into a "ones-upmanship" situation. Sometimes it's best to elevate the issue to the next level. It's good to know that BMW responded to your request.

[xDrive35i]

Originally Posted by stlgirl

agree with these last 3 posts by judd, jay, lotus.
since my service people were kind of dragging their feet with regards to inspecting the actual sensor, I called BMW of North America to complain. they actually called my service manager and told him that the actual sensor needed to be looked at and that they wanted feedback so that they could follow up with me.
maybe some would think this is juvenile (me calling and essentially tattling on them) but then again, i sometimes think we females get the brush off/patronizing attitudes from some in the auto industry.

Go ahead and belittle them ALL YOU WANT. I will talk these people down to the very bottom step on the staircase down to the basement of compliance, well either that or a lawsuit. These cars are so expensive compared to what most can afford, and it's just not right to let them step all over you. And they're so lucky that I didn't feel it necessary to file my old 535 wagon as a lemon due to a persistent, ignorantly ill-repaired HPFP N54 problem.

They are in the service industry. They are here to service you well in assurance of the direction of your hard earned money. If they don't instinctually treat you as such, then you make sure they understand the ramifications of their irresponsible behavior.

Don't forget the power you have over them. You hold the reigns as to whether or not they get your money, and that of your friends and peers.

[Lotus7]

juddholland,

You're beginning to sound like a "old-time" Baptist minister (I mean that in the very best sense of the profession). Are you originally from Mississippi by any chance?

Did you file an on-line complaint form with the NHTSA? This is definitely a safety issue and fits their criteria for filing. They accepted my form and issued an ODI number for the case. I haven't been contacted yet.

Letting your local BMW outlet know you've done so might get you even more leverage, or it might get them even madder at you than they are already.

[jaymk5]

Originally Posted by stlgirl

agree with these last 3 posts by judd, jay, lotus.

maybe some would think this is juvenile (me calling and essentially tattling on them) but then again, i sometimes think we females get the brush off/patronizing attitudes from some in the auto industry.

I would not think so, because we have all the rights to ask questions on the problem that we have in hand and its up to the service department to handle it appropriately, any customer irrespective of how much the value of the car is will be unhappy and worried in these kind of situations and service department should understand this and try to address the situation intellectually rather than adding fuel to the fire with statements like "car is fairly new and we are waiting for customers to buy it so that we all in service department can learn how it works". Good to know BMW NA is taking care of your complaint.

[xDrive35i]

Originally Posted by Lotus7

juddholland,

You're beginning to sound like a "old-time" Baptist minister (I mean that in the very best sense of the profession). Are you originally from Mississippi by any chance?

Did you file an on-line complaint form with the NHTSA? This is definitely a safety issue and fits their criteria for filing. They accepted my form and issued an ODI number for the case. I haven't been contacted yet.

Letting your local BMW outlet know you've done so might get you even more leverage, or it might get them even madder at you than they are already.

Will do. But I called BMW NA earlier today as stlgirl had suggested. I got a call a few hours later from the dealership saying that BMW NA had earlier contacted them after my phone call and notified them that a new transfer case or whateverthefuck was being sent in to be installed, and BMW NA requested that this repair be completed, the car back in my garage, no later than Tuesday.

[stlgirl]

customer service is a dying art. i don't think that some of the dealerships give a rat's a** about providing good service, esp since they aren't getting paid for the first 4yrs/50K. please note that i said SOME dealerships, not all. also, i know they have already been paid for the 4yrs/50K but they don't see it that way...at least that's how they act. as such, some of them like to cut corners (ie, the whole "diagnostics not showing a problem, therefore we won't check out the actual part" bullsh**). i'm glad that bmw north america can sort of act like a system of checks/balances.

judd, i'm so glad you got some help today. the guy from bmw-na who helped me, zach, is now (i'm sure much to his chagrin) on my speed dial.

the thing about the diagnostics not showing a problem is such crap. i mean do they think i'm making this problem up? like i somehow get joy out of telling them that the oil temp sensor malfunction light went on? i don't even know enough about cars to make this stuff up. i mean if i hadn't read it on the dashboard i wouldn't have even known there was such thing as an oil temp sensor! to me it's like a patient who complains about a palpable breast lump but is told not to worry about it since the mammogram is negative...

okay, thanks for listening to my ranting and raving. i'll stop already...

[Spitfire]

Same problem here... "oil temperature sensor malfunction" popped up today. Into the dealer tomorrow. Second repair in the first month, first one was the rear seat not being attached. Nice truck but wtf?

[stlgirl]

spitfire: i hope that the sensor is still on when you get there tomorrow.
could you do a favor and post your follow up here? thx.

[Spitfire]

Will do..snapped a picture of the error message if it does disappear.

[stlgirl]

oh super smart (taking the pic)
i'll check back tomorrow
nice to know that we can all commiserate (and celebrate) together on these forums.

[xDrive35i]

Still don't have my car back. They're waiting for some more parts to be shipped in from Germany. It's been about a week, and I'm growing impatient. If I get the car back and the issue comes back with it, I will demand a new one at the front of the queue, free-of-charge. I have ZERO patience for this.