10-09-2011, 10:37 AM | #45 | |
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10-09-2011, 12:25 PM | #46 |
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10-10-2011, 10:37 PM | #47 |
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I think someone hear so wishes they had dhp that they imagine mechanics moving in their non dhp sport mode 35i.
It's ok. We all make purchasing mistakes.
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10-10-2011, 10:54 PM | #48 |
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10-10-2011, 11:44 PM | #49 | |
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From a physics perspective it doesn't make any sense. There are fluids that exhibit viscosity changes when a current is applied. These make sense for, say, struts or shocks where there's something moving through them that you want to slow down under some conditions. But sway bars are fundamentally static elements. Yes, they're often hollow but filling them with liquid, even a liquid with variable viscosity, would really just make them heavier and a potential sources of leaks. It wouldn't make them substantially stiffer. No one who knows anything about the mechanics of these systems claims that the suspension changes. In fact, BMW reps who've weighed in say exactly the opposite. It's okay to disagree, but don't get mad at us for not believing. I'll say it again: I believe you feel it; I felt it too. But it's an illusion. If you want me to believe it, you've got to provide more evidence than your (or even my!) experience. But there isn't any. All the non-experiential data point to one conclusion. |
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10-11-2011, 12:12 AM | #50 |
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Geez, cmon lets all ease up. In a DHP equipped x3 in the USA, it is the shocks that are changing and it is electromagnetic, sort of. Technically, it's rheonetic fluid or Magnorheonetic fluid Rheonetic fluid can be iron particles suspended in oil. When a magnetic field is introduced the fluid changes viscosity and like magic, you get stiffer dampers. If I'm not mistaken,this technology first appeared on Cadillac Sevilles in 2002 under the name "Magneride". It is also on more common on Corvettes.
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10-11-2011, 01:09 AM | #51 | |
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10-11-2011, 01:45 AM | #52 | ||
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MR_fluid Quote:
So in theory, DHP and non-DHP cars could both have these shock absorbers with DHP only adding the automatic rapid changes based on road feedback. In a non-DHP car, when you flick the Sport switch, it just changes the current supplied to the electromagnet to a static setting (not dynamic) which provides more viscosity. Normal mode, less current, less viscosity. All in theory, I have no idea what's in your shocks.
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10-11-2011, 02:14 AM | #53 | |
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While I don't think Sport mode has any effect on stiffening the suspension everyone is entitled to believe whatever they want and to be honest for the individuals who do believe that Sport mode changes the suspension their belief isn't harming anyone, if someone wants the active dampers they should order DHP just to be safe, plus there's other goodies in the package.
I too have a SAP non-DHP X3 and don't believe that the suspension is changed when using Sport mode but I understand that there's extra features within configuring Sport mode that aren't emphasized well with simply the highlighted figures nor general terms like "chassis" or "drivetrain." For example it's believed that having "chassis" enabled + putting the shifter to the left is the same thing as enabling both "chassis" & "drivetrain" but this is not the case. If you were to have "chassis" enabled + shifter to the left this only changes the steering wheel tightness and higher shifting points, when you also select "drivetrain" in Sport mode configuration the car instantly downshifts and throttle response is much quicker. However, there's also another feature that doesn't seemed to be discussed anywhere where RPMs seemed to be "locked" to a higher value and you can see this by shifting manually in 8th gear while going 60-70 MPH and having "drivetrain" enabled, the car seems to be locked at a higher RPM and instantly goes back down when disabling "drivetrain." What I'm getting at is although different people want to believe different things about their X3 the fact is no one has a definitive answer and trying to pick at some small paragraph that BMW wrote isn't the way to go; I mean what if they didn't use the right word to describe a feature or what if they're only generalizing and left some parts out? People should just go on believing what they want since it's their car and their investment. Quote:
Overall this is a very long thread, multiple threads in fact. |
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10-11-2011, 02:15 AM | #54 | |
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10-11-2011, 06:12 AM | #55 |
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Sorry to say you don't have proof as to what is being used the the X3's without DHP. Give me some part numbers and I'll believe you.
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10-11-2011, 08:21 AM | #56 |
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part numbers
realoem makes the part number question easy. X3's have 3 possible strut part numbers and 2 possible stabilizer bar part numbers.
Front strut - 31316796409/10 (L/R) with sport suspension settings - 31316796417/18 (L/R) with Electronic Damping Control (EDC) - 37116797027/28 (L/R) Rear strut - 33526796317 with sport suspension - 33526796422 with EDC - 37126799911 Front stabilizer bar - 31356788711 with sport suspension OR EDC - 31356788710 Rear stabilizer bar - 3355678218 with sport suspension OR EDC - 33556787219 My M-Sport without DHP does not have a difference in suspension in the SPORT or SPORT+ settings. It it still soft and compliant while the other changes the settings make do make it drive more responsively. |
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10-11-2011, 08:24 AM | #57 |
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If you don't believe a statement from the X3 project manager I don't know why part numbers will convince you. But just in case here are links to the relevant components in the DHP and non-DHP equipped X3s. You can the presence of a control module and connection to the strut in the DHP diagram and an absence of both in the non-DHP diagram.
for DHP http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...86&hg=33&fg=45 for non-DHP http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...83&hg=33&fg=45 |
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10-11-2011, 09:11 AM | #58 | |
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Thanks this post confirms alot - there are 3 different part configs for standard, sport, and DHP. So what happens if you order DHP w/o a sport package that includes sport transmission/suspension? Is it always on or do u get some sort of mode switch?
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10-11-2011, 09:45 AM | #59 |
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So why would there be a need for 3 different types of struts and 2 different types of stabilizer bars if Sport Mode changes nothing??
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10-11-2011, 09:54 AM | #60 |
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Regardless, there are no connections to anything but the struts in the DHP equipped cars. So how do you think pushing a switch on the console is going to change the suspension? Magic?
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10-11-2011, 09:54 AM | #61 |
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I think we should discuss something that does not breed controversy or create feelings of hostility and quasi-religious emotional outbursts..... like global warming!
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10-11-2011, 09:56 AM | #62 |
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10-11-2011, 10:21 AM | #63 |
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Love the fact that someone called mspringer is an authority on suspension systems!
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10-11-2011, 10:43 AM | #64 |
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While I do know a fair bit about suspension systems that's hardly the point here. If you're going to change the characteristics of a suspension by pressing a switch on the console there has to be a connection to some suspension component. The only such connection in an X3 is to the struts on a DHP equipped car. Perhaps you believe in magic too
And by the way I do own an X35i with SAP and DHP, and driven SAP only cars multiple times. While going to sport mode on an SAP car does change throttle response and transmission behavior I don't feel any difference is suspension stiffness which why I added DHP to mine. |
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10-11-2011, 11:25 AM | #65 |
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The two OEM diagrams are pretty damning evidence. No wire, no current change, no viscosity change, no suspension change
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10-11-2011, 11:38 AM | #66 |
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At the risk of repeating what's already been said perception can sometimes be misleading. In addition to my X3 I own and E46M3. That car also has a sport mode switch which only alters throttle response. The change is really dramatic, making it feel like the car has an extra 100hp, but the throttle becomes so twitchy most people don't use it. Surprisingly, it also makes the car feel significantly stiffer, and the M3 is very stiff to begin with. Obviously, since the suspension is not adjustable in any way this is just an illusion.
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