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      10-09-2011, 10:37 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by torzeck View Post
This is an old debate that has been resolved. I do think the feel changes within sport mode but it is not because of the active dampers in a non DHP equipped car. Its physics at work. There are no active dampers in a non DHP car in the USA.


Below is the response from the Product Manger at BMW USA for the X3
when i asked him this question and why the BMWUSA website was missing the active damper mention in the DHP description a few months ago:

Hey Tory,
Yes the DHP still has the variable damping, they just changed the way its configured in the ordering system and it made an error on the website. Should be fixed soon.

If you don't have variable damping, the sport button does not change suspension settings, only transmission, steering, and throttle response.

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joe
Funny though, BMW never did fix their website and you said this was a few months ago. Very interesting.......
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      10-09-2011, 12:25 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Want the thrill View Post
Funny though, BMW never did fix their website and you said this was a few months ago. Very interesting.......
True, and they have never fixed the interior photos of the 35i (with SAP)
that should show the rocker switch.
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      10-10-2011, 10:37 PM   #47
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I think someone hear so wishes they had dhp that they imagine mechanics moving in their non dhp sport mode 35i.

It's ok. We all make purchasing mistakes.
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      10-10-2011, 10:54 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by soj View Post
I think someone hear so wishes they had dhp that they imagine mechanics moving in their non dhp sport mode 35i.

It's ok. We all make purchasing mistakes.
I think someone HERE wishes they could spell!! It's ok, we all make mistakes
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      10-10-2011, 11:44 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Want the thrill View Post
Maybe the sway bars? I read that they are filled with electromagnetic fluid and stiffen when the sport mode is activated. I don't know and I probably never will.
Electromagnetic fluid? Huh. You read that? And, uh, you believed it? Did you read it "here" by any chance? Because that appears to be the only place on the web that "electromagnetic fluid" and "sway bars" occur in the same sentence (besides the one quoted above). Which is probably a good indicator that the information is not reliable.

From a physics perspective it doesn't make any sense. There are fluids that exhibit viscosity changes when a current is applied. These make sense for, say, struts or shocks where there's something moving through them that you want to slow down under some conditions. But sway bars are fundamentally static elements. Yes, they're often hollow but filling them with liquid, even a liquid with variable viscosity, would really just make them heavier and a potential sources of leaks. It wouldn't make them substantially stiffer.

No one who knows anything about the mechanics of these systems claims that the suspension changes. In fact, BMW reps who've weighed in say exactly the opposite. It's okay to disagree, but don't get mad at us for not believing. I'll say it again: I believe you feel it; I felt it too. But it's an illusion. If you want me to believe it, you've got to provide more evidence than your (or even my!) experience. But there isn't any. All the non-experiential data point to one conclusion.
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      10-11-2011, 12:12 AM   #50
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Geez, cmon lets all ease up. In a DHP equipped x3 in the USA, it is the shocks that are changing and it is electromagnetic, sort of. Technically, it's rheonetic fluid or Magnorheonetic fluid Rheonetic fluid can be iron particles suspended in oil. When a magnetic field is introduced the fluid changes viscosity and like magic, you get stiffer dampers. If I'm not mistaken,this technology first appeared on Cadillac Sevilles in 2002 under the name "Magneride". It is also on more common on Corvettes.
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      10-11-2011, 01:09 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by torzeck View Post
Geez, cmon lets all ease up. In a DHP equipped x3 in the USA, it is the shocks that are changing and it is electromagnetic, sort of. Technically, it's rheonetic fluid or Magnorheonetic fluid Rheonetic fluid can be iron particles suspended in oil. When a magnetic field is introduced the fluid changes viscosity and like magic, you get stiffer dampers. If I'm not mistaken,this technology first appeared on Cadillac Sevilles in 2002 under the name "Magneride". It is also on more common on Corvettes.
Yes, in a DHP equipped vehicle. And that's the point.
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      10-11-2011, 01:45 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by torzeck View Post
Geez, cmon lets all ease up. In a DHP equipped x3 in the USA, it is the shocks that are changing and it is electromagnetic, sort of. Technically, it's rheonetic fluid or Magnorheonetic fluid Rheonetic fluid can be iron particles suspended in oil. When a magnetic field is introduced the fluid changes viscosity and like magic, you get stiffer dampers. If I'm not mistaken,this technology first appeared on Cadillac Sevilles in 2002 under the name "Magneride". It is also on more common on Corvettes.
Interesting info and some more detail on wiki

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MR_fluid

Quote:
If the shock absorbers of a vehicle's suspension are filled with magnetorheological fluid instead of plain oil, and the whole device surrounded with an electromagnet, the viscosity of the fluid, and hence the amount of damping provided by the shock absorber, can be varied depending on driver preference or the weight being carried by the vehicle - or it may be dynamically varied in order to provide stability control. This is in effect a magnetorheological damper. For example, the MagneRide active suspension system permits the damping factor to be adjusted once every millisecond in response to conditions. General Motors (in a partnership with Delphi Corporation) has developed this technology for automotive applications. It made its debut in both Cadillac (Seville STS build date on or after 1/15/2002 with RPO F55) as "Magneride" (or "MR") and Chevrolet passenger vehicles (All Corvettes made since 2003 with the F55 option code) as part of the driver selectable "Magnetic Selective Ride Control (MSRC)" system) in model year 2003. Other manufacturers have paid for the use of it in their own vehicles. As of 2007, BMW manufactures cars using their own proprietary version of this device, while Audi and Ferrari offer the MagneRide on various models.

So in theory, DHP and non-DHP cars could both have these shock absorbers with DHP only adding the automatic rapid changes based on road feedback. In a non-DHP car, when you flick the Sport switch, it just changes the current supplied to the electromagnet to a static setting (not dynamic) which provides more viscosity. Normal mode, less current, less viscosity. All in theory, I have no idea what's in your shocks.
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      10-11-2011, 02:14 AM   #53
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While I don't think Sport mode has any effect on stiffening the suspension everyone is entitled to believe whatever they want and to be honest for the individuals who do believe that Sport mode changes the suspension their belief isn't harming anyone, if someone wants the active dampers they should order DHP just to be safe, plus there's other goodies in the package.

I too have a SAP non-DHP X3 and don't believe that the suspension is changed when using Sport mode but I understand that there's extra features within configuring Sport mode that aren't emphasized well with simply the highlighted figures nor general terms like "chassis" or "drivetrain." For example it's believed that having "chassis" enabled + putting the shifter to the left is the same thing as enabling both "chassis" & "drivetrain" but this is not the case. If you were to have "chassis" enabled + shifter to the left this only changes the steering wheel tightness and higher shifting points, when you also select "drivetrain" in Sport mode configuration the car instantly downshifts and throttle response is much quicker. However, there's also another feature that doesn't seemed to be discussed anywhere where RPMs seemed to be "locked" to a higher value and you can see this by shifting manually in 8th gear while going 60-70 MPH and having "drivetrain" enabled, the car seems to be locked at a higher RPM and instantly goes back down when disabling "drivetrain."

What I'm getting at is although different people want to believe different things about their X3 the fact is no one has a definitive answer and trying to pick at some small paragraph that BMW wrote isn't the way to go; I mean what if they didn't use the right word to describe a feature or what if they're only generalizing and left some parts out? People should just go on believing what they want since it's their car and their investment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by h0mersimps0n View Post
wow, now I know why Mole dropped off the face of the earth, this is such a painful, painful thread.
Mole had some very insightful posts that were well thought-out but at the same time he was a very angry individual. He would brew up a sh*tstorm anytime someone questions his justification for a response or the validity of his all-knowing BMW engineer connections.

Overall this is a very long thread, multiple threads in fact.
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      10-11-2011, 02:15 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sfax View Post
...

So in theory, DHP and non-DHP cars could both have these shock absorbers with DHP only adding the automatic rapid changes based on road feedback. In a non-DHP car, when you flick the Sport switch, it just changes the current supplied to the electromagnet to a static setting (not dynamic) which provides more viscosity. Normal mode, less current, less viscosity. All in theory, I have no idea what's in your shocks.
Yes, in theory. However, as has been stated too many times, those parts aren't on the non-DHP cars. That is why DHP costs money.
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      10-11-2011, 06:12 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by Penso di no View Post
Yes, in theory. However, as has been stated too many times, those parts aren't on the non-DHP cars. That is why DHP costs money.
Sorry to say you don't have proof as to what is being used the the X3's without DHP. Give me some part numbers and I'll believe you.
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      10-11-2011, 08:21 AM   #56
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part numbers

realoem makes the part number question easy. X3's have 3 possible strut part numbers and 2 possible stabilizer bar part numbers.

Front
strut - 31316796409/10 (L/R)
with sport suspension settings - 31316796417/18 (L/R)
with Electronic Damping Control (EDC) - 37116797027/28 (L/R)

Rear
strut - 33526796317
with sport suspension - 33526796422
with EDC - 37126799911

Front stabilizer
bar - 31356788711
with sport suspension OR EDC - 31356788710

Rear stabilizer
bar - 3355678218
with sport suspension OR EDC - 33556787219

My M-Sport without DHP does not have a difference in suspension in the SPORT or SPORT+ settings. It it still soft and compliant while the other changes the settings make do make it drive more responsively.
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      10-11-2011, 08:24 AM   #57
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If you don't believe a statement from the X3 project manager I don't know why part numbers will convince you. But just in case here are links to the relevant components in the DHP and non-DHP equipped X3s. You can the presence of a control module and connection to the strut in the DHP diagram and an absence of both in the non-DHP diagram.

for DHP

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...86&hg=33&fg=45

for non-DHP

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...83&hg=33&fg=45
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      10-11-2011, 09:11 AM   #58
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Thanks this post confirms alot - there are 3 different part configs for standard, sport, and DHP. So what happens if you order DHP w/o a sport package that includes sport transmission/suspension? Is it always on or do u get some sort of mode switch?



Quote:
Originally Posted by dwabmw View Post
realoem makes the part number question easy. X3's have 3 possible strut part numbers and 2 possible stabilizer bar part numbers.

Front
strut - 31316796409/10 (L/R)
with sport suspension settings - 31316796417/18 (L/R)
with Electronic Damping Control (EDC) - 37116797027/28 (L/R)

Rear
strut - 33526796317
with sport suspension - 33526796422
with EDC - 37126799911

Front stabilizer
bar - 31356788711
with sport suspension OR EDC - 31356788710

Rear stabilizer
bar - 3355678218
with sport suspension OR EDC - 33556787219

My M-Sport without DHP does not have a difference in suspension in the SPORT or SPORT+ settings. It it still soft and compliant while the other changes the settings make do make it drive more responsively.
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      10-11-2011, 09:45 AM   #59
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So why would there be a need for 3 different types of struts and 2 different types of stabilizer bars if Sport Mode changes nothing??
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      10-11-2011, 09:54 AM   #60
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Regardless, there are no connections to anything but the struts in the DHP equipped cars. So how do you think pushing a switch on the console is going to change the suspension? Magic?
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      10-11-2011, 09:54 AM   #61
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I think we should discuss something that does not breed controversy or create feelings of hostility and quasi-religious emotional outbursts..... like global warming!
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      10-11-2011, 09:56 AM   #62
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I think we should discuss something that does not breed controversy or create feelings of hostility and quasi-religious emotional outbursts..... like global warming!
+1
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      10-11-2011, 10:21 AM   #63
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Love the fact that someone called mspringer is an authority on suspension systems!
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      10-11-2011, 10:43 AM   #64
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While I do know a fair bit about suspension systems that's hardly the point here. If you're going to change the characteristics of a suspension by pressing a switch on the console there has to be a connection to some suspension component. The only such connection in an X3 is to the struts on a DHP equipped car. Perhaps you believe in magic too

And by the way I do own an X35i with SAP and DHP, and driven SAP only cars multiple times. While going to sport mode on an SAP car does change throttle response and transmission behavior I don't feel any difference is suspension stiffness which why I added DHP to mine.
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      10-11-2011, 11:25 AM   #65
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The two OEM diagrams are pretty damning evidence. No wire, no current change, no viscosity change, no suspension change
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      10-11-2011, 11:38 AM   #66
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At the risk of repeating what's already been said perception can sometimes be misleading. In addition to my X3 I own and E46M3. That car also has a sport mode switch which only alters throttle response. The change is really dramatic, making it feel like the car has an extra 100hp, but the throttle becomes so twitchy most people don't use it. Surprisingly, it also makes the car feel significantly stiffer, and the M3 is very stiff to begin with. Obviously, since the suspension is not adjustable in any way this is just an illusion.
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