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      03-02-2014, 08:13 AM   #1
Holeinoneboy
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It's official... leaving BMW for the "Dark Side"

Bought my wife a new Q5 TDI before Christmas and loved it so much I just ordered a second one for myself. What a "goof", huh? Have owned a few BMW's and gotta tell you, really happy with the Audi line up. Might have waited for the X3 diesel but it's a 4 cylinder version whereas the Q5 is a 6. The "pull" of the Q5 is incredible and the gas mileage improvement remarkable. No regrets. Love the Audi. Anyone want to buy a 2013 X3????
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      03-02-2014, 12:29 PM   #2
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Ya, BMW is really behind in diesel technology! Go MB & Audi.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Holeinoneboy View Post
Bought my wife a new Q5 TDI before Christmas and loved it so much I just ordered a second one for myself. What a "goof", huh? Have owned a few BMW's and gotta tell you, really happy with the Audi line up. Might have waited for the X3 diesel but it's a 4 cylinder version whereas the Q5 is a 6. The "pull" of the Q5 is incredible and the gas mileage improvement remarkable. No regrets. Love the Audi. Anyone want to buy a 2013 X3????
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      03-02-2014, 12:45 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lbjgh View Post
Ya, BMW is really behind in diesel technology! Go MB & Audi.
BMW's US diesel strategy is hard to fathom. It has great 6 pot diesels, surely they can be reworked for US regs. The 35D is the fastest X3 too....
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Last edited by clivem2; 03-02-2014 at 03:37 PM.. Reason: bad typing
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      03-02-2014, 02:34 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clivem2 View Post
BMW's US diesel strategy is hard to fathom. It has great 6 pot diesels, surely they can br reworked for US regs. Yhe 35D is the fastest X3 too....
From where I sit far away I have to agree. If they can use what we call the 30d in the new X5 as the 35d (both our 30d and the 35d as used in the X5 have the same power, torque and performance numbers), why can't they put a 6 cylinder diesel in the US/Canadian X3?

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      03-02-2014, 03:23 PM   #5
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North Americans don't think diesel are performance options... diesel hauls goods.
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      03-03-2014, 01:54 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lbjgh
Ya, BMW is really behind in diesel technology! Go MB &:
[/QUOTE]
This is not true at all. I have owned a3 TDi and I drive a 2.0d x3. The BMW diesel gives away nothing to the vw/Audi unit. Here, you can also get the 3.0d which matches the 3.0tdi

The problem is that Americans think diesels are down market. And case in point, when I picked up my wife's American colleague, her first comment was "oh diesel, in a BMW. Weird". And she is not a car person.

1000km+on a tank of diesel.....torque.....and inside the car, just as quiet as the 2.0i. Not sure what there is not to like about diesels, but some people do!
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      03-03-2014, 04:56 AM   #7
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The government here in UK did a good stitch up on everyone - Diesel was cheaper then petrol then once everyone started buying them (Diesels are very popular here and account for around 50% of the car market) the duty levels changed and now diesel is 30 "cents/pence" per gallon dearer (£1.37/l with petrol £1.30/l).

So yes I love my diesel - and do see myself every going back to a petrol car, but thats how we got to this position.
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      03-03-2014, 06:27 AM   #8
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And diesels account for a lot of NOX pollution we have at unsafe levels in some cities....

My last car used the 35i engine so I know that's a brilliant engine but my next X3 will be a 35D which has excellent throttle response (quite a lot better than my 30D). The 35i has a very broad and flat torque plateau whereas the 35D torque peak is narrow but it's huge in comparison and with an 8 speed auto box the narrowness of the 35D torque curve doesn't matter. Actually with an auto box it would be preferable if the 35i had torque curve with a higher peak and if it's narrower that would be an ok tradeoff.

Smaller petrol engines (ie up to 2 litres) have come on so much in terms of their efficiency that it could be diesels show the greatest benefit when they focused on performance in engiens such as 30D and 35D (or 40D).
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      03-03-2014, 02:11 PM   #9
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Not sure where anybody is getting the 35d is the fastest X3 out there. When I look at the data on the 335i vs 335d, the diesel is consistantly about 6 flat to 60 and lucky to break 14 in 1/4 vs upper 4's and low 13's for gas engine 35i. Not saying diesel is a good option for better gas mileage and decent performance, but numbers don't seem to match the perception that the diesel is somehow faster than standard gas version.
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      03-03-2014, 02:12 PM   #10
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If you are an American or a Canadian, next time you drive the road, count how many diesel cars or SYVs you see on the raod vs gasoline. Chances are is way less than 1%. That is why BMW do not have a big selection of diesels in the US and Canada, because they do not sell.
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      03-03-2014, 02:21 PM   #11
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The spec sheet on the new 2015 X3 35d has 0-100km at 5.3 seconds.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kdog26372 View Post
Not sure where anybody is getting the 35d is the fastest X3 out there. When I look at the data on the 335i vs 335d, the diesel is consistantly about 6 flat to 60 and lucky to break 14 in 1/4 vs upper 4's and low 13's for gas engine 35i. Not saying diesel is a good option for better gas mileage and decent performance, but numbers don't seem to match the perception that the diesel is somehow faster than standard gas version.
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      03-03-2014, 02:38 PM   #12
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The 35D has marginally more bhp than the 35i and loads more torque. BMW at the original launch of the 35D claimed it was the fastest X3. This is the non-US 35D engine which is not at all the same as the X5 35D engine.

The raw figures without curves don't tell the whole story but they say enough:

35i 306 bhp, 400Nm torque 0-100kph 5.6s
35D 313bhp, 630Nm torque, 0-100kph 5.3s

400Nm is 295 lb ft
630Nm is 465 lb ft
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Last edited by clivem2; 03-03-2014 at 02:52 PM..
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      03-03-2014, 02:40 PM   #13
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bye bye!
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      03-03-2014, 02:55 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kdog26372 View Post
Not sure where anybody is getting the 35d is the fastest X3 out there. When I look at the data on the 335i vs 335d, the diesel is consistantly about 6 flat to 60 and lucky to break 14 in 1/4 vs upper 4's and low 13's for gas engine 35i. Not saying diesel is a good option for better gas mileage and decent performance, but numbers don't seem to match the perception that the diesel is somehow faster than standard gas version.
Be careful by what you call the 35d. In North America, the "35d" engine as used certainly in the new F15 X5 - not sure about the 335 35d - is not the same engine as used in the X3 35d in Europe.

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      03-03-2014, 07:01 PM   #15
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Yeah not sure about anything over in Europe, but 335 with diesel is slower in states. right from bmw website 35d is 1/2 second slower to 60 vs 35i. Guessing BMW thinks diesel buyers in US care more about mpg vs performance as very few people here choose that option and based on specs, mpg would really be the only reason I can think of.

Diesel sounds like a nice option in Europe, here's it a second class citizen for the car manufacturers it appears.
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      03-04-2014, 01:33 AM   #16
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I believe the 35D in the X3 is called the 40D in the X5 in Europe. I doubt the US get this engine. I think the 6 pot one you get is a previous generation 30D single turbo but BMW play games with the naming. The European 35D twin turbo diesel is a monster bettered only by the tri - turbo which the X3 doesn't get but tends to be called a 50D.

The European 35D / 40D has maginally more power than the 35i and over 50% more torque. See the figures a few posts previously.

Last edited by clivem2; 03-04-2014 at 01:52 AM..
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      03-04-2014, 02:25 AM   #17
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I am a chief engineer working on a tanker. I might say that I now something about engines. There are advantages and disadvantages from both. Diesel engines are more efficient, have higher torque, but are noisier and more heavy. New Diesel engines are very quiet now. About emissions you might be surprised to find out that diesel engines have a significant lower value than a petrol engine. BMW has beautiful 6 cylinders diesel engines, much better in term of fuel efficiency and power than Audi, I don't understand why they do not put them on sale also on North American market. Fuel price is climbing a lot also there, I believe it will be just a question of time when American market will demand diesel engines. However Americans have the advantage of car price in USD ( in Europe is same price in euro), so we are paying 35% more for same car.
My choice will be always a diesel engine.
In case you don't know Audi won 24h Le Mans race with TDI engines late years, for simply reason that diesel engine are more efficient. They stopped less for fueling! I heard things like you will win 0.5 s for 0-100 km/h (0 to 60 mph), but let's be honest, in real life this is absolutely nothing, maybe on a track this meaning something. It is so nice to run 1000 km (625 miles) with a full tank!!!!
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      03-04-2014, 02:49 AM   #18
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Showing imperial units for the US guys (it's 0-62mph as this is converted from 0-100kph):

X3 engines (European naming), LCI performance figures
35i 306 hp, 295 lb ft, 0-62mph 5.6s
35D 313 hp, 465 lb ft, 0-62mph 5.3s

It's clear the 35D is faster and why!
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Last edited by clivem2; 03-04-2014 at 04:22 AM..
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      03-04-2014, 03:58 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Holeinoneboy View Post
Bought my wife a new Q5 TDI before Christmas and loved it so much I just ordered a second one for myself. What a "goof", huh? Have owned a few BMW's and gotta tell you, really happy with the Audi line up. Might have waited for the X3 diesel but it's a 4 cylinder version whereas the Q5 is a 6. The "pull" of the Q5 is incredible and the gas mileage improvement remarkable. No regrets. Love the Audi. Anyone want to buy a 2013 X3????
Yes I don't know why the don't sell them in the States or Canada. They are made in the States then ship them to Europe.

Anyway, I can honestly say the 35d is a peach!
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      03-04-2014, 06:45 AM   #20
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Emissions and DEF requirements are roadblocks which kick the cost up stateside.
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