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      06-13-2011, 06:20 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by northX3 View Post
Yes

In Sport Mode, the suspension gets tighter, firmier. That is, if you don't uncheck this option in the Settings menu of the iDrive.
Correct, it does not have the Dampers though. You have to get DHP for that. The suspension does become much firmer in sport mode.
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      06-13-2011, 06:21 PM   #24
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Assuming that you are not referring to faster transmission shift points with sport auto of X335i, are you claiming that your sport activity package allows you to change the suspension responses, aka giving you electronic dampers?
Yes, the suspension become stiffer and you feel every bump on the road. It does not have the electronic dampers though. You need DHP for that.
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      06-13-2011, 07:27 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Want the thrill View Post
Yes, the suspension become stiffer and you feel every bump on the road. It does not have the electronic dampers though. You need DHP for that.
Do you know how the suspension becomes stiffer?

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      06-13-2011, 11:06 PM   #26
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Do you know how the suspension becomes stiffer?

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That is the million dollar question.
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      06-13-2011, 11:29 PM   #27
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Probably gas adjusted shocks and the like.
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      06-14-2011, 11:29 AM   #28
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Back to the original topic (this question was missed by the OP, so I'll repost): Kalopop, do you have the standard steering or the variable sport steering?
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      06-14-2011, 07:04 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Want the thrill View Post
That is the million dollar question.
I was going to guess some form of adjustable damper, maybe with two settings where it can be toggled between normal and firm.

If so, I'm curious if its a different damper than the "electronic dampers" used with DHP, or maybe the same basic dampers but with a simplified control system.

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      06-14-2011, 08:15 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BruceOmega View Post
I was going to guess some form of adjustable damper, maybe with two settings where it can be toggled between normal and firm.

If so, I'm curious if its a different damper than the "electronic dampers" used with DHP, or maybe the same basic dampers but with a simplified control system.

Thanks
Bruce
Guys, 35i cars without DHP do not have the ability to change suspension settings. Only throttle response, shift points and the deactivation (or activation) DTC are changed when you switch modes. The DTC {dynamic traction control, little car pictogram with the swirls} is turned off only in the sport + mode.

Last edited by torzeck; 06-14-2011 at 10:48 PM. Reason: Still confused with DSC with DTC so I'm covering both
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      06-14-2011, 09:31 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by torzeck View Post
Guys, 35i cars without DHP do not have the ability to change suspension settings. Only throttle response, shift points and the deactivation of DTC are changed when you switch modes. The DTC {dynamic traction control, little car pictogram with the swirls} is turned off only in the sport + mode.
I beg to differ. Do you have a 35i without the DHP? I do and you CAN feel the change in the suspension when switching to sport mode. A picture also comes up on the I-drive showing that the suspension is changing to sport mode. Per the owners Manual: "SPORT MODE": "Consistently sporty tuning of the SUSPENSION for greater driving agility with maximum driving stabilization".

I'm so sick of having to re-hash this!
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      06-14-2011, 10:00 PM   #32
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I think something changed here that's confusing the conversation.

When I bought the Dynamic Handling Package it included Dynamic Damper Control. Ghats now gone from the package. The term isn't on the site, but Electronic Damper Control is there, but not anywhere I can find in the vehicle description.

I think they changed something here, are keeping quiet it aboutit donnas not to annoy, and some of us are then playing from different sheets f music.
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      06-14-2011, 10:03 PM   #33
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I do have a 35i without DHP and I want to believe the suspension changes.
I get the chassis image and the choices in I-drive for configuring.

I am hoping somehow you're right but how would this be possible without the damper control.

Here's one idea:
Physics wise we may actually be feeling a stiffer chassis when in sport mode
as all materials will exhibit a rheoplastic phenomenon, like the old Stretch Armstrong toy.
You can elongate Stretch Armstrong by slowly pulling on him, but if you punch him he's hard as a rock. Or, if you pull him apart (head to toe) rapidly the material the toy is made of
resists the pull when these more abrupt forces are applied.

So, with the faster throttle response it is conceivable the springs, shocks and chassis are reacting faster due to the snappier forces acting on them.

So, it's either my above response or somebody better clarify what technology
The non DHP 35i cars have. Other wise why offer DHP?
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      06-14-2011, 10:10 PM   #34
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I think what was previously called Dynamic Damper Control as part of the DHP no longer requires DHP to get it. Earlier buyers like me got hosed.
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      06-14-2011, 10:24 PM   #35
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Nahoa and WTT, I hope you guys are right, but my car was built in late April and I know I don't have variable dampers. I special ordered the sport suspension (stiffer springs and shocks) similar to what's offered in other countries. I do have the the toggle.

Also here is Judd Holland's post where he covers this.
http://x3.xbimmers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=532984

Again I hope WTT And Nahoa*are right, but when was the change implemented?

*Nahoa, if you're right I have been hosed as well.

Last edited by torzeck; 06-14-2011 at 11:07 PM. Reason: Left one poster out
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      06-14-2011, 11:35 PM   #36
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I copied and pasted Mole7374's response to this exact topic where it is broken down pretty cleary. I'm sure he won't mind as he is on the same side I am on this! Here goes:

"We'll this is definitely the most heated topic on the boards nowadays b/c BMW has done an awful job of providing info around it.

DHP has become very confusing b/c some people believe it does more than it actually can...
There are two things within the X3 that matter for this conversation. (well more than 2 but let's start there)

Driving Dynamic Control
DHP (Dynamic Handling Package) --the name on this one is part of the problem.

Let's start with the easy one... DHP is as AzNM put it, an "active" dampening system in the suspension....no do NOT get this confused with those rocker (normal/sport) switches near the shifter...more on tht later. DHP is a SUB-SYSTEM to driving dynamic control. (more on that too in a bit) DHP's SOLE PURPOSE (and I repeat sole purpose) in life is to provide an ACTIVE suspension setup that basically works to push the tires towards the ground to keep the X3 connected to the road...and it also helps to eliminate body roll by "actively" positioning the car so it's not flopping around all over the place. (this woudl be sport mode) In normal mode it kind does the opposite where its job is to absorb bumps and provide a more relaxed drive.
That's it...nada...nothing more nothing less....DHP is NOT responsible for variable steering and it is NOT responsible for the throttle changes (ie quicker) and it is NOT responsible for performance control.
Performance control is a sub-system to dynamic driving control too (and it can run independent of all of them) Like Az said, performance control works to keep torque towards the rear wheels and it will active look to help break the inside wheel/accelerate the outside wheel in a hard turn. (kinda a poor mans torque vectoring) This is performance control....period.
Now...what do you say is dynamic driving control???? That is the OVERALL system that these things can fall under. (ie the normal/sport rocker switches in the car) Dynamic driving control does all the work globally changing the "PERSONALITY" of the car...those rocker switches are NOT solely included with DHP. How do I know it? I have my X3 and they have the switches and I do not have DHP. Driving dynamics control (DDC) DDC is what puts the car in to "normal/sport/sport+" modes. (DHP DOES NOT DO THIS) WIth a non-dhp X3 you can ONLY get DDC if you buy a 35i with the sport package..that is it! You cannot get DDC on a 28i unless you buy DHP...this is where the confusion comes in and is the reason why everyone is arguing over this...I've personally been involved in like every thread on this topic only b/c I've researched it to the bone and have been trying to provide clarity, although most people want to argue...I'm sticking to the facts though. Anyway...like I said, you cannot get the three modes in a 28i unless you buy DHP...and when you do that this is what happens: In a 28i---add DHP package which in turn----first add DDC---performance control----variable sport steering----DHP. That's it. Now...it gets more confusing in a 35i because if you have a 35i WITHOUT the sport package the car will look identical to a 28i without DHP. Now...when you add the sport package everything changes..this is what happens: Add sport package----DDC is added...DDC on the 35i without DHP also includes modifications for the chassis and steering and throttle...this is what DDC does in a non-DHP car. ..and yes yes yes yes yes it does do the suspension/chassis mods...trust me it does...the idrive screen shows te changes and when you drive the vehicle you can feel it. The difference is this... in a non-dhp X3, the chassis changes are NOT ACTIVE like with DHP....meaning...when I flip into sport mode in my X3, I can feel a stiffer chassis/suspension..but that't is...the car does not actively monitor/adjust the suspension on the fly...it just goes into "stiffer mode". However the throttle response AND steering are also adjusted...I do not however have performance control...and by the way DHP is also referred to as "EDC" or electronic dampening control....just an aside on that. When you go into sport mode you can absolutely feel everything change....and it allows you to configure the chassis and drivetrain independently...I've messed with that and it feels different.

So here's the thing...know what you are getting into b/c some people only want what I have, but think that they only get it with DHP...thus BMW is making extra bucks from confusion (planned maybe?) DHPs dark secret it this... in "normal" mode with DHP, the car rides in "comfort" mode which is DEFINITELY more cushy...it feels more like a lexus (ok not that bad) but not as muich like an X3. In normal mode with non-dhp the car rides in "normal" mode (which is a balanced setup). In sport mode with non-dhp and dph the car rides in sport mode...and again the difference is that sport mode in non-dhp is just a firmer switch that turns on whereas in dhp cars the x3 is activing monitoring/changing the setup PER WHEEL to provide the associated feel....again that's PER WHEEL in each mode...
Sport + is basically where you are wanting to go around a track and you want the stability control systems turned off so you have more driver control (ie you want drifting).

So again know what you are getting into b/c it is an expensive package and if all you want are mods to the feel, then a 35i with SAP does it...if you want the more active suspension then DHP in either car will do it.

Now those are the facts and now I'll give you my opinion. First drive both...and drive them extensively...it will be hard to find a DHP car but drive it...I'm serious. I drove both for a decent amount of time and you'll never know what you want personaly by reading the boards. And ask GlenE (on this thread) He drove both for several thousand miles and has more hands on experiance than all of us. If you have the money and don't car, get DHP..it is a VERY COOL system and if it's there why not. However....if money is tight then do more research although everything I posed is 100% accurate. In my opinion, if you really really really want a super handling and agressive setup and plan on driving it that way, #1 remember it's an SUV and NOTHING that any system will do is gonna make this feel like a 3 series. My X3 handles VERY GOOD but it's not a sedan...just a fact. If you tell me that you drive like a ralley star and need these systems, but you order your tires and wheels with all season tires and not performance tires, I'll say you are wasting your money. I'd argue that a non-dhp x3 with performance tires will handle better than a dhp x3 with all seasons...I know you have to balance everything but I've seen people make the argument that they drive super super agressive, and then their X3 has all-seasons.....and this really applies to sport+ mode b/c if you are going to do stuff like drifting etc, all seasons will break free and you'll be wrapped around a tree. I also have an STI which handles better on 2 wheels than an X3 on all 4, however if I put all seasons on it I'd be around a tree too. (maybe)

I hope this helps and doesn't cause another contentious thread b/c I can't argue this point any more...it's allllllllll over every board. I'm also including a few links to back up what I'm saying for you....

Also...last thing... .I'm attaching the actual owners manual for the X3...like the document that legally represents our vehicles...like the document that hast to accurate or else they are legally on the hook...please go to pages 88 and 89 for some language also supporting what I'm saying.... and you'll also see in there that the suspension mods do also apply to non-dhp cars.

http://x3.xbimmers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=513681

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/att...4&d=1304371793
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      06-15-2011, 12:02 AM   #37
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Excellent explanation, thanks.
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      06-15-2011, 12:12 AM   #38
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Sure, this poster is backing you up and accurately describing some of the systems our cars have but the question is: how are the suspension and chassis being modified when put into these modes?


I have read the manual and it's far from a technical description.

Meanwhile, I have an email into a higher up within bmwna and hopefully he can clear this up.
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      06-15-2011, 12:17 AM   #39
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Sure, this poster is backing you up and accurately describing some of the systems our cars have but the question is: how are the suspension and chassis being modified when put into these modes?


I have read the manual and it's far from a technical description.

Meanwhile, I have an email into a higher up within bmwna and hopefully he can clear this up.
Mole7374 is doing the same thing with friends he has at headquarters (who have ties to those in engineering). Hopefully we can get an educated answer and put this to rest.
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      06-15-2011, 12:18 AM   #40
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Sure, this poster is backing you up and accurately describing some of the systems our cars have but the question is: how are the suspension and chassis being modified when put into these modes?


I have read the manual and it's far from a technical description.

Meanwhile, I have an email into a higher up within bmwna and hopefully he can clear this up.
Again, that is the million dollar question!
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      06-15-2011, 01:40 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalopop View Post
No I didnt have the time to test drive the x3...
I think I may have found your problem.

Regardless, I don't find the steering to be as bad as you claim. My X3 35i with ZPT and DHP feels pretty damn similar to my 09 328i with ZPT. And I've found the engine note to be sonorous and rather enjoyable. Of course, I was somehow able to find time to teat drive the car before I ordered it, so I did have a good idea of what to expect.
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      06-15-2011, 08:28 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by Want the thrill View Post
Mole7374 is doing the same thing with friends he has at headquarters (who have ties to those in engineering). Hopefully we can get an educated answer and put this to rest.
Yes the billion dollar question is how....and I think that until we get a difinitive answer on "how" it's going to be hard for everyone to actually accept an explanation...and honestly I think that's valid b/c with all the confusion there need to be a "horses mouth" answer.


As WTT pointed out I'm also going through one of my contacts to try and get some questions lobbed into some engineering people she knows (not that I know) in Germany. She's been at BMWNA like 16 years and a few times in the past I've seen her be able to get specifics "how to" answers from folks.

If you guys have very specific questions shoot them over in this thread and what I'm going to do is compile a top 5-8 question list to send over...they need to be fairly short and specific questions a not be related to futures or anything like that. One time I was denied an answer on a "how does this work" question b/c they basically said "that's giving away the recipie to the cake". We'll see...
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      06-15-2011, 01:24 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by torzeck View Post
Nahoa and WTT, I hope you guys are right, but my car was built in late April and I know I don't have variable dampers. I special ordered the sport suspension (stiffer springs and shocks) similar to what's offered in other countries. I do have the the toggle.

Also here is Judd Holland's post where he covers this.
http://x3.xbimmers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=532984

Again I hope WTT And Nahoa*are right, but when was the change implemented?

*Nahoa, if you're right I have been hosed as well.
Interesting, this is the first I heard that one can special order the sport suspension, which is technically not offered in the U.S.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Want the thrill View Post
I beg to differ. Do you have a 35i without the DHP? I do and you CAN feel the change in the suspension when switching to sport mode. A picture also comes up on the I-drive showing that the suspension is changing to sport mode. Per the owners Manual: "SPORT MODE": "Consistently sporty tuning of the SUSPENSION for greater driving agility with maximum driving stabilization".

I'm so sick of having to re-hash this!
Want the thrill - You don't have the DHP, and it seems you don't have M Sport either, so there's no way you have the electronic damper control - unless BMW gives you a nice freebie. Take off a wheel and check the suspension part.

Again, electronic damper control is not a cheap option (Performance Control and Variable Sport Steering are cheaper - check BMW UK), and BMW doesn't offer free lunch.
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      06-15-2011, 01:37 PM   #44
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I don't think WTT is saying he has DHP.....he's just saying he has (as the rest of us do with the 35i and SAP) the rocker switch that tunes normal/sport/sport+. DHP may be the system which handles the dampening but the DDC is what handles the changes to vehicle "personality". I agree pulling off the wheel will help but what good will that do unless we all know what we are looking at in the pictures. If go great, but since nobody on here (myself inlcuded) can determine on our own "how" this sytem works, I'm not sure that looking at pictures of someone's suspension will show the smoking gun. If so someone would have said, "if you take off the wheel and find "X" then you'll know the answer".

I'm not sure why everyone can't just wait for the questions to come back from the contacts we have at BMWNA rather than have people pull off wheels for something we may not know how to understand anyway.

Last edited by mole7374; 06-15-2011 at 03:59 PM.
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