[OverDrive]

Originally Posted by AlexK

X6M, just like X6, has a rear differential system called "Dynamic Performance Control", which is NOT purely mechanical (unlike inferior Torsen). It, just like regular xDrive system in vehicles like X3 and X5, is being controlled by car's computer, which uses various electronic sensors and electric motor to control the mechanical clutches.
http://www.caranddriver.com/features...ling-tech_dept

Not trying to defend Audi, but just want to clarify the facts.

The DPC in the X5/6M is in fact a mechanical LSD.

Read here:

http://www.bmw.com/com/en/insights/t...e_control.html

[AlexK]

Originally Posted by OverDrive

Not trying to defend Audi, but just want to clarify the facts.

The DPC in the X5/6M is in fact a mechanical LSD.

Read here:

http://www.bmw.com/com/en/insights/t...e_control.html

Even BMW's own site calls their system "Mechatronical", which is exactly what I've meant in my previous post.

[watoowatoo]

I always had a feeling that Audi doesn't invest in research and engineering of its car as much as BMW. Everything in a BMW feels well thought out. But in the Audi just a put together as long as it sells to people with less expectations and there are many.

Originally Posted by MERCSUk153

...BMW AWD system is better for getting out of the snow while the Audi AWD is better for performance.

B.S! And the new optional "Audi quattro Sport Differential" is just a copy of the system in the X6, not the opposite.

[watoowatoo]

Originally Posted by AlexK

Even BMW's own site calls their system "Mechatronical", which is exactly what I've meant in my previous post.

Did you think that like a PS3 games the car is a software? Of course it has mechatronics. It actually has a clutch in the rear differential. Has nothing to do with Audi system.

[AlexK]

Originally Posted by watoowatoo

the new optional "Audi quattro Sport Differential" is just a copy of the system in the X6, not the opposite.

Both of them are copies of Mitsubishi's AYC (the first commecial electrically-controlled active torque vectoring rear differential), which was available (if I'm not mistaken) starting at 1996 on certain Evo models.
http://www.lancerregister.com/faq/G04/g04.html

[keanu1]

I dont know if xdrive is better than qattro but i can see now that bmw is doing these litte comparison movies as audi did with the snow ramp years ago!! years ago audi found a weakness in bmw xdrive and now the tables have turned!!

[watoowatoo]

Originally Posted by MERCSUk153

So the X6m was released in 2010? So can you tell me how Audi copied this system when the S4 with a similiar system was released in 2009 in Europe?

X6M
http://www.mwerks.com/artman2/publis...Released.shtml

S4 bottom of article.
http://www.motorauthority.com/blog/1...4-and-s4-avant

Thanks for the fanboy Audi doesn't do any research and copying comments though. When will the fanboys learn that both companies are great german companies and are capable of producing great products but differently.

DPC is standard in all X6 models not just X6M. X6 was released to public in early 08, although available to reviewers in 2007.
By the way although other companies like Mitsubishi & Acura in SH-AWD were using this idea before it was never as effective as DPC in BMW.

[keanu1]

what about this one!! ??

[AlexK]

Originally Posted by watoowatoo

By the way although other companies like Mitsubishi & Acura in SH-AWD were using this idea before it was never as effective as DPC in BMW.

How exactly did you determine that? What did you mean by "effective"?

[AlexK]

Originally Posted by keanu1

what about this one!! ??

To be honest, YouTube videos are absolutely useless as a source of proof or any valid demonstration, regardless of what you're trying to prove or demonstrate In the first link, the driver of Q5 could be easily just holding the brake pedal and not even trying to push on gas pedal to get up that hill. In the second, the Range Rover could've been equipped with bald or high performance summer tires and X6 probably had tires with better traction. You can never know what really happened just by looking at someone's personal videos

Here's a nice example of that, what happens when X6 has the high performance summer tires:

[OverDrive]

Originally Posted by keanu1

what about this one!! ??

That Q5 had like 4 passengers while the X3 only had the driver....that test is flawed.

[keanu1]

maybe yhis will cheer you up!! Oh, no! maybe it had some sort of invisible string draging it up!!

[shiggy]

Originally Posted by keanu1

what about this one!! ??

wow...cool video!!!

[OverDrive]

Originally Posted by MERCSUk153

Oversteer is definitely fun and in that video the M3 CSL was in a race so oversteer was unwarranted.

I'd rather have over steer in a race than under steer, because at least with over steer I won't see what I'll crash into when I do...

In all seriousness though, over steer is more easily corrected compared to under steer, but after all, it all depends on the driver.

Originally Posted by shiggy

your a funny guy...now for a good laugh....this is hilarious!!!!

http://goanimate.com/movie/04ps5iTyBUgk/1

who comes up with this shit?!?!

[watoowatoo]

Originally Posted by AlexK

How exactly did you determine that? What did you mean by "effective"?

"Unlike the Acura system, need is determined on the basis of yaw instead of wheelspin, and DPC operates by clutches, so engagement is constant rather than throttle-dependent." So it works even off-throttle and acts more like LSD.

Originally Posted by MERCSUk153

Show me where you have the SH-AWD is not as good as X6M DPC?
Even if the X6 had the DPC in 08, you think Audi can just copy the same system? You ever heard of patents? Also if you think that Audi can copy this system and incorporate it into there S4 withing a years time frame you got to be crazy. If it was that simple Audi could have copied Porsche tech by early next year since they have now bought out Porsche. BMW could have also copied the R8 or produced their own supercar by just copying Bugatti or Ferrari.

Almost all reviews agree that X6 with DPC not only is better than SH-AWD but have set a new benchmark.
ZF is the manufacturer of this differential not BMW and sooner or later more brands will integrate it in their systems as Audi did. Ofcourse I didn't mean Audi copied it out of BMW ? The idea behind this concept is not new and was patented in 1930s and 70s. Even fwd Honda Prelude used it in 1997.

By the way Audi R8 is based on Gallardo, Porsche Cayenne shares chassis with VW Touareg and Audi Q7 ,Veyron's engine is based on VW VR6 engine. Cars do share components or ideas.
Sorry for lengthy reply.

Source: http://www.worldcarfans.com/10703294...n-detail/page1

[jaybird124]

Originally Posted by Park2670

I have been taught many times that it cannot transfer 100% of the torque to one axle. Wikipedia says the same.

You're right. During training they'll reluctantly clarify the X's can do 100% of AVAILABLE torque to the front axle. I can't remember what that percentage works out to, but that was the key word.

[ORIGIN M.]

Wow what a bunch of misguided fan boys!

I'd take an X-Drive car on the track over any Audi, any day.

And if anybody thinks Acura system is better, you'd be so wrong.

The Acura system is good, but not that good, and it is front biased, just like most Audi's are!

[ns2000x]

Originally Posted by ns2000x

Threads like this make me feel good about internet forums and the fellow enthusiasts who frequent them.

Sigh. I retract my earlier statement.
Some of the usual suspects (from two non-constructive camps) hijacked the thread.

[watoowatoo]

Originally Posted by MERCSUk153

Well as long as you know it wasn't copied from BMW as you had mentioned that BMW did the R&D on it and Audi doesn't do any R&D. Audi is part of VAG as you know and many components are shared maybe even too many which I don't like but I guess that is part of the finance part. This happens because Audi is not yet as large as BMW but once they get up there they will be able to do less platform sharing in my opinion. I think if too much of it goes on it will end up like the American manufacturers.
Again can you show me some of these reviews comparing the sh-awd vs the DPC that you are talking about. I am not talking reviews of the x6/x6m vs an MDX but of the AWD capabilities of both that you are talking about.

I have mentioned advantages of DPC+xDrive over SH-AWD in my last post.
"While SH-AWD only works on the rear axle of a normally front-drive vehicle, new systems from automotive suppliers Ricardo in Britain and ZF in Germany can vector torque to all four tires simultaneously."
Take a look at:http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/news/4225886
Still AWD capabilities are a result of whole dynamics of the car not just one system. You wouldn't want to compare Acura with BMW in that sense.(X6 vs MDX). I ride X6 in Canadian winters and I can tell you xDrive in X6 is just amazing.

[shiggy]

Originally Posted by watoowatoo

I have mentioned advantages of DPC+xDrive over SH-AWD in my last post.
"While SH-AWD only works on the rear axle of a normally front-drive vehicle, new systems from automotive suppliers Ricardo in Britain and ZF in Germany can vector torque to all four tires simultaneously."
Take a look at:http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/news/4225886
Still AWD capabilities are a result of whole dynamics of the car not just one system. You wouldn't want to compare Acura with BMW in that sense.(X6 vs MDX). I ride X6 in Canadian winters and I can tell you xDrive in X6 is just amazing.

Great to see comments from guys such as yourself who have actually driven the vehicle instead of a member who is making rediculous claims based on crap he saw on the internet.

[watoowatoo]

Originally Posted by MERCSUk153

You can compare the merits of the AWD system without comparing the whole car. Why not? The SH-AWD would pass the same test as the one showing the Q5 and X3. the Sh-AWD system does exactly the same as the DPC only thing is that the X6 has better dynamics. If you say you can't compare the two AWD systems without comparing the whole car than why compare at all any of the AWD system of these cars at all? Why not just put them on a track and see if the X3 or the Q5 or the RDX win since it will compare the whole car?
Still haven't shown me the articles you mention comparing the two systems that you are talking about that says the DPC system is better.

I took time to provide technical comparison of systems and seems like you didn't bother to read it. If you are looking for a youtube video use youtube.com

[shiggy]

Originally Posted by MERCSUk153

In reading the article it doesn't say it is better but it says it is taking it a step further by taking the torque vectoring to AWD and RWD cars. This doesn't mean it is better technologically speaking. If you read what the second generation SH-AWD can do it basically does exactly the same thing as the Ricardo system and ZF system but on a FWD platform.
Like I have said there is no article by any magazine comparing real life capabilities of the Sh-AWD to either system by BMW or Audi in which they say the clear winner is BMW or Audi. If their was BMW or Audi would have marketed such claims by now. All I know is I have read many articles on the X6M, S4, and the Acura TL and all the writers have praise for the Torque Vectoring in these cars and none that I have read said that one system is significantly better than the other. That is what I am asking you for since you said you have read various articles claiming the DPC system is better. I am not trying to say that you are wrong here I am trying to find more information myself but so far all that I have read none has lead me to the same conclusion saying either the Audi or BMW system is better than each other or the SH-AWD.

would it really matter?
you have riddled this entire forum with your Audi propaganda.....it doesnt matter if other members are right. your only intent is to argue!
so consider your mission successful and complete....AUDI is the worlds greatest car manufacture....Audi created the best AWD system in the world....ALL Audi's are NOT overweight....ALL Audis are very nimble and agile.....ALL Audis are very affortable...ALL Audi designs are not boring and unimaginative!
So give it a rest Footie....oops...i mean.....Mesuck153!