[Kevin_The_Clean1]

I've got an interesting question that just now crossed my mind. And I'm wondering why didn't I think of this sooner and/or why hasn't anyone else asked it before. Would it be possible to get a Stage 1 flash for the 91 octane here in California... ? BUT... LATER ON if I wanted a touch more power, add the DINANTRONICS - X piggyback on top of that existing Stage 1 flash... ? But made sure to not take it past the Map 4 setting (unless I had 93 or greater in the tank)... ?

I love DINAN stuff. However, many of the tunes are a touch on the conservative side to keep the engine smooth & reliable for a long time. Which I highly respect & can appreciate. The Stage 1 software seems to add a bit more low end torque early on. And the X piggyback unit seems to add a bit more power "throughout the entire rev range" (flatter / more consistent gains across a wider range of RPM's) + more power towards redline. So this would be essentially adding the best of both worlds, in a semi safe & controlled manner by possibly combining the two products. I was alway taught, the only dumb question is the one never asked. And it never hurts to at least test the idea or theory out. So, what are your thoughts about this... ? Dinan_Engineering




https://x3.xbimmers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1897657

https://x3.xbimmers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1931410


https://www.dinancars.com/products/s...ts/D900-S58-S1

https://www.dinancars.com/products/s...arts/D440-0165

[Jnat]

Originally Posted by Kevin_The_Clean1

I've got an interesting question that just now crossed my mind. And I'm wondering why didn't I think of this sooner and/or why hasn't anyone else asked it before. Would it be possible to get a Stage 1 flash for the 91 octane here in California... ? BUT... LATER ON if I wanted a touch more power, add the DINANTRONICS - X piggyback on top of that existing Stage 1 flash... ? But made sure to not take it past the Map 4 setting (unless I had 93 or greater in the tank)... ?

I love DINAN stuff. However, many of the tunes are a touch on the conservative side to keep the engine smooth & reliable for a long time. Which I highly respect & can appreciate. The Stage 1 software seems to add a bit more low end torque early on. And the X piggyback unit seems to add a bit more power "throughout the entire rev range" (flatter / more consistent gains across a wider range of RPM's) + more power towards redline. So this would be essentially adding the best of both worlds, in a semi safe & controlled manner by possibly combining the two products. I was alway taught, the only dumb question is the one never asked. And it never hurts to at least test the idea or theory out. So, what are your thoughts about this... ? Dinan_Engineering




https://x3.xbimmers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1897657

https://x3.xbimmers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1931410


https://www.dinancars.com/products/s...ts/D900-S58-S1

https://www.dinancars.com/products/s...arts/D440-0165

Here's my thought. I did this on my previous 2017 M240xi with upgraded turbo/bolt ons... I had an MHD tune that i put a JB+ controller (+3.5psi ish) on top of after i replaced the Turbo just to see what you state, could i get best of both worlds. My feedback is::: i ran an 11.4@124 with a choppy launch, with a better launch it would have been a low 11 or high 10 no doubt based on the speed and performance otherwise. On the street it was well behaved and ran fine but i wouldn't do it again, i would just spring for a custom tune. On this X3M i'm running an OTS MHD stg 2 E/95 tune (also XHP) and it's great, the only add'l thing i would potentially do is a custom tune which i'm currently researching.

[danniexi]

no thats stupid.

if you are able to manipulate the same tables on a flash tune as you would a piggy back then why not change to a more aggressive map on a flash tune in the first place?

the only time ive seen a piggyback used on top of a flash tune was for supplementing controls for extra modifications (namely PI, meth, etc) on top of parameters that the flash wouldnt be able to compensate independently.

[Jnat]

Originally Posted by danniexi

no thats stupid.

if you are able to manipulate the same tables on a flash tune as you would a piggy back then why not change to a more aggressive map on a flash tune in the first place?

the only time ive seen a piggyback used on top of a flash tune was for supplementing controls for extra modifications (namely PI, meth, etc) on top of parameters that the flash wouldnt be able to compensate independently.

You're correct and can't be argued but it is possible and has been done before successfully by me and other very fast vehicles... stacking a boost controller isn't new news...

[danniexi]

Originally Posted by Jnat

You're correct and can't be argued but it is possible and has been done before successfully by me and other very fast vehicles... stacking a boost controller isn't new news...

of course it's possible. i just do not see the point. why not switch to a more aggressive map? or get a custom tune done in the first place?

[Kevin_The_Clean1]

Originally Posted by danniexi

of course it's possible. i just do not see the point. why not switch to a more aggressive map? or get a custom tune done in the first place?

Even though you called my potential idea stupid, I'll still chime in. Sure, any of us could get a custom tune & go that route. That would probably be the easiest. I definitely want to begin "safely" adding a touch more power for the crappy relatively low octane 91 we have here in Northern CA. And we all know that DINAN products are a touch conservative. So, I'm probably going to start with general DINAN Stage 1 flash since I have a late 2019 / early 2020 build ECU / DME.

Then once I get comfortable with that I can begin with the DINANTRONICS X piggyback & start with the lease aggressive map. Slowly ratcheting it up from there until I've found a sweet spot with the two products. Again, this is just an idea. We all modify our cars in different ways, so I wouldn't call anyone's idea dumb.

[Bimma360]

Why not just get the Carbahn tune and be done with it?

[Kevin_The_Clean1]

Originally Posted by Bimma360

Why not just get the Carbahn tune and be done with it?

I've already looked at that. I don't see any of their products being 91 octane compatible. Here in Norther CA 91 octane is all we have available to us at 99.99% of the pumps in this area...

Is the Carbahn OTS tune really all that and a bag of chips... ?

[Bimma360]

Yeah man. I thought you already knew this based on the question you asked in the Dinan thread. The carbahn tune is self adjusting for various octanes. I would obviously give them a call to find out for certain, but it does sound like their tune will run on 91.

Re-reading your first post perhaps you are more so asking for trying to squeeze out more power out of a 91 tune by stacking a piggyback on top. If so, then I guess a carbahn tune is irrelevant here. I wouldn't do it, but that's just me.

Regarding the carbahn tune being all that, I am a lot more conservative on this stuff then most on here. I won't touch anything other than Dinan or Carbahn simply b/c they are conservative and place focus on keeping all of the safety features intact. Carbon's selling point is that its self adapting to changes in octane.

[danniexi]

Originally Posted by Kevin_The_Clean1

Even though I definitely want to begin "safely" adding a touch more power for the crappy relatively low octane 91 we have here in Northern CA. And we all know that DINAN products are a touch conservative. So, I'm probably going to start with general DINAN Stage 1 flash since I have a late 2019 / early 2020 build ECU / DME.

Then once I get comfortable with that I can begin with the DINANTRONICS X piggyback & start with the lease aggressive map. Slowly ratcheting it up from there until I've found a sweet spot with the two products. Again, this is just an idea. We all modify our cars in different ways, so I wouldn't call anyone's idea dumb.

the problem is that a piggyback will be intercepting data from the OEM sensors and adjusting those signals according to whatever parameters IT is programmed for to a TUNED DME. the tuned DME will be getting modified data, rendering the flash useless, with either the piggyback taking priority with its tune or, worse, the flash DME outputting incorrect signals to the rest of the engine and causing more damage than benefits.

if you have the opportunity to flash a vehicle, you have access to hundreds of different tables that can be modified to produce the best and safest results to your vehicle. a piggyback simply lies to a DME, feeding it false data and relying on the DME's calculations of intended data tables to produce those similar results. there are absolutely no benefits to a piggyback over a proper flash tune whatsoever when talking about stage 1 or stage 2 tunes.

and personally, Dinan has been mediocre when it was acquired by DPB almost a decade ago. CarBahn is the original Dinan Engineering reborn, as Steve Dinan has basically rehired all of his original employees that made the original company great. I would much rather go with CarBahn and their flash tune over anyone else if you want to prioritize power with an emphasis on efficiency and safety.

[omniphil]

Definitely a bad idea. The Piggyback is expecting to be getting stock values sent to it to be modified and then sent out. It makes it's safe adjustments based on it assuming its getting an unmodified signal. Like a boost controller from the old days you have no way to know how much boost is too much.

The piggyback has no way to know if anything is being raised to an unsafe limit, it just takes in the signal, modifies it and sends it out.
There is nothing "safe" about this approach, you are taking a gamble with your engine.

Will it work? sure will.
Is it a safe idea? nope...

This is why I avoid all piggy backs, its blindly modifying a signal to fake the ECU into thinking its running within spec.

As mentioned there are better and safer ways do to this. I understand it can come at a cost. but please realize what engine damage costs.

[TacosRule!]

Originally Posted by danniexi

Dinan has been mediocre when it was acquired by DPB almost a decade ago. CarBahn is the original Dinan Engineering reborn, as Steve Dinan has basically rehired all of his original employees that made the original company great. I would much rather go with CarBahn and their flash tune over anyone else if you want to prioritize power with an emphasis on efficiency and safety.

This 10000%

EDIT: here's the rest of their portfolio. Sad to see APR is also there. I wonder how much of a markup is someone paying for a dinan exhaust when it's really a blowmaster err flowmaster

Flowmaster, B&M Racing and Performance, Hurst Shifters, Hurst Driveline Conversions, Dinan Engineering and APR as of August 1st, 2017

[Kevin_The_Clean1]

Thank you for the highly beneficial input here guys. Sometimes in life we get so attached to a particular company's name & old reputation that we semi unconsciously become loyal to that idea. But at the end of the day, the OG of the "BMW tuning with full factory warranty guy" STEVE DINAN knows the absolute best & has the finest engineers. I knew the DINAN flash tune was self adjusting to a certain extent. But the HP & TQ gains weren't that impressive. Especially towards redline, most of the gains completely fell off.

It looks like CarBahn’s EVO software in their flash tune is much MUCH better at quickly adapting to different octane fuels with better results. So that's what I'm going to select. I can't thank you gusy enough for chiming in & steering me in a better direction!

[Kevin_The_Clean1]

I guess should've shared this with you fellas a little sooner. Feel free to forward to the 19:30 mark. I'm assuming STEVE DINAN is speaking about his CarBahn flash tunes that can fully adapt to different octane levels in "just 4 WOT pulls."

[danniexi]

Originally Posted by TacosRule!

This 10000%

EDIT: here's the rest of their portfolio. Sad to see APR is also there. I wonder how much of a markup is someone paying for a dinan exhaust when it's really a blowmaster err flowmaster

Flowmaster, B&M Racing and Performance, Hurst Shifters, Hurst Driveline Conversions, Dinan Engineering and APR as of August 1st, 2017

the current Dinan Engineering isn't all bad to be honest. i believe most of the original hardware engineering team that Steve had created remained during the transition so some of their offerings is are still legitimate, especially when it comes to the suspension side. in fact, Dinan is the only manufacturer still producing decent hardware specific to the F97 platform as oppose to others (e.g. bumpstops, monoballs, etc.). i even purchased the bumpstops myself since they are the only company to do so and ive had great results from their products. i'll eventually look into their monoball kit down the line as well.

Originally Posted by Kevin_The_Clean1

I guess should've shared this with you fellas a little sooner. Feel free to forward to the 19:30 mark. I'm assuming STEVE DINAN is speaking about his CarBahn flash tunes that can fully adapt to different octane levels in "just 4 WOT pulls."

to be pedantic, it's the OEM DME that does it, not JUST the CarBahn tune.

[Bimma360]

The Dinan brand is still freakin awesome. They offer a large array of products for this chassis, and the brand still appears to mostly adhere to the ethos that it's known for. Regardless of who they use to make their products (this has always been the case even with Steve at the helm), they have been well designed, well built, and depending on the product (exhausts for example) US manufactured.

The Dinan exhaust on my F97 is one of the best sounding, one of the best looking, and costs 1/2 - 1/3 that of other brands. And it's US manufactured. I could give two shits who manufactures it for them. The final product is good, and unique (err you won't find it for sale elsewhere without the branding)... there is nothing to complain about.

[Kevin_The_Clean1]

I agree that DINAN makes great products & I've heard that many of the hardware engineers have stayed. It's the software engineers that have left & therfore that's why I'm quickly learning that CarBahn has an edge in terms of top of the line OTS flash tuning.