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      11-20-2012, 10:36 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by JC7727 View Post
In the US, driver adjustable dampers come with the Sport Activity and M-sport packages; in this application, the dampers do not adapt to road conditions. Along with the Dynamic Handling Package, the dampers are both driver adjustable AND adaptive to road conditions.

Driver adjustable meaning they can be stiffened by the driver in car. They are NOT passive just not "auto"
no no no no...this is also wrong. SAP and M-sport do not give you adaptive or driver adjustable dampers at all. they are regular passive dampers. if you want active adaptive dampers, better check the dynamic handling package option box.

take it straight from bmw's website and order sheets....see LBJ's post above.
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      11-20-2012, 10:39 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by JC7727 View Post
In the US, driver adjustable dampers come with the Sport Activity and M-sport packages; in this application, the dampers do not adapt to road conditions. Along with the Dynamic Handling Package, the dampers are both driver adjustable AND adaptive to road conditions.

Driver adjustable meaning they can be stiffened by the driver in car. They are NOT passive just not "auto"
So what piece of new BMW technology is that? I've not seen anything that fits that description. Please post a link to what this is all about, as I'm keen to see where I (and we in Europe) are missing something so vital.

BTW, I can't see any new technology in the US configurator for the X3, just the same options as we have over here. Standard passive, sport passive and DDC, what we term Variable Damping Control (VDC) over here in the UK.

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      11-20-2012, 10:54 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by tango131 View Post
no no no no...this is also wrong. SAP and M-sport do not give you adaptive or driver adjustable dampers at all. they are regular passive dampers. if you want active adaptive dampers, better check the dynamic handling package option box.

take it straight from bmw's website and order sheets....see LBJ's post above.
So where does this "adaptive or driver adjustable dampers"???? terminology come from, to even be in the discussion. BMW only provide one active damping system as far as I know. I have DDC (VDC) in my 535i, it is fully active damping, but different base modes, as per driver toggle switch. In my car comfort, normal and sport. The system is the ZF Sachs CDC2e design/product.

My understanding, the X3 system is a lower level ZF Sachs CDC system with only one proportional valve per damper (like the F30/1 models), with 2 base modes, comfort and sport on the toggle switch. But both modes are fully active damping, not a fixed rate for either mode.

I sense there is some confusion on what DDC is all about, to some users.

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      11-20-2012, 11:13 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by HighlandPete View Post
So where does this "adaptive or driver adjustable dampers"???? terminology come from, to even be in the discussion. BMW only provide one active damping system as far as I know. I have DDC (VDC) in my 535i, it is fully active damping, but different base modes, as per driver toggle switch. In my car comfort, normal and sport. The system is the ZF Sachs CDC2e design/product.

My understanding, the X3 system is a lower level ZF Sachs CDC system with only one proportional valve per damper (like the F30/1 models), with 2 base modes, comfort and sport on the toggle switch. But both modes are fully active damping, not a fixed rate for either mode.

I sense there is some confusion on what DDC is all about, to some users.

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HPete: the terms "adaptive or driver adjustable dampers" come from BMWs USA website (sort of anyway). with the DHP package in the US, the system -- when in "comfort mode" -- continuously adjusts the suspension to make it a comfortable ride. the adjustable part is that the driver can select from "comfort" , "sport" or "sport plus" settings, although some say the "sport plus" setting is the same suspension firmness of "sport" .

links: http://www.bmwusa.com/standard/conte...damper_control

"Electronic Damping Control:

With just a press of a button, Electronic Damping Control allows you to activate any of the gear settings. Switching from NORMAL, SPORT, or SPORT+ only requires pressing the control button next to the gear lever. Once pushed, the engine responds spontaneously with our 8-speed automatic transmission Steptronic, increasing RPMs before quickly shifting into a new gear. In the end, it makes for a sportier suspension. [comment: this seems to be mostly drivetrain/tranny/steering related, which leads to confusion]
Electronic Damping Control uses data collected by sensors in the X3. It gathers readings about the position of the steering wheel, the strength of lateral forces, wheel rotation speeds and much more. The system then calculates the best setting for each individual wheel and continually adjusts its suspension accordingly [comment: this is the adaptive and adjustable part]. With Electronic Damping Control, the BMW X3 hugs every curve in the road while providing a comfortable and safe ride

All, see this see this video from BMW USA which explain in full the dynamic handling package and what it does (it takes a moment to load once you click link): http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Conte...b-732048a9e3fb


here is the link to the video manuals: http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Conte...modelcode=13XD
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      11-20-2012, 11:18 AM   #27
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http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Conte...ndOptions.aspx

Dynamic Dampers arent even listed under DHP only under M-Sport, maybe they changed this recently?
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      11-20-2012, 11:40 AM   #28
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HPete: the terms "adaptive or driver adjustable dampers" come from BMWs USA website (sort of anyway).
So we only have the one system in reality. Nothing has changed from releasing DDC (VDC).

Some seem to be separating the two functions 'driver and auto' as if we can option two suspension systems. Rather than 'driver adjustable' being a sub function of the DDC system.

And there was me beginning to think there was something new from BMW that I'd missed, being brought in under the wire in the US.

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      11-20-2012, 11:43 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JC7727 View Post
http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Conte...ndOptions.aspx

Dynamic Dampers arent even listed under DHP only under M-Sport, maybe they changed this recently?
please look at LBJs post above with screen shots. even though "dynamic dampers" is listed "under" the "M-Sport package" heading, it is not automatically "ckecked" with a checkmark when you click on the m-sport box. http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Conte...ldYourOwn.aspx

once you check the "dynamic dampers" box under the "m-sport package" heading, it will automatically check the box and add the "dynamic handling package" to your order for an additional $1300. once again, the only way in the USA to get "dynamic dampers" is to add the DHP package and pay $1300 over any other package (sports activity or m sport).
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      11-20-2012, 11:51 AM   #30
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please look at LBJs post above with screen shots. even though "dynamic dampers" is listed "under" the "M-Sport package" heading, it is not automatically "ckecked" with a checkmark when you click on the m-sport box.

once you check the "dynamic dampers" box under the "m-sport package" heading, it will automatically check the box and add the "dynamic handling package" to your order for an additional $1300. once again, the only way in the USA to get "dynamic dampers" is to add the DHP package and pay $1300 over any other package (sports activity or m sport).
That is what I found this morning and what got me posting, and also why some feel there is another option, some 'mystery' additional suspension package, hidden in the BMW US configurator.

Simple really, isn't it?

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      11-20-2012, 11:56 AM   #31
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So we only have the one system in reality. Nothing has changed from releasing DDC (VDC).

Some seem to be separating the two functions 'driver and auto' as if we can option two suspension systems. Rather than 'driver adjustable' being a sub function of the DDC system.

And there was me beginning to think there was something new from BMW that I'd missed, being brought in under the wire in the US.

HighlandPete
sort of. in the US, DDC on its own is just the switch next to the gear lever slector that allows the driver to adjust the transmission shifting mode (comfort, sport, sport plus) and steering mode (likewise), and also throtle sensitivity. this is the "drivetrain" part of the equation. the shifting and steering get progresively "harder" = more sporty as you click through frmo comfort to sport plus. in sport plus the transmission hold shifts at higher RPMS and the shift quality is "harsher" to give a sportier feel. the throttle feel is also amplified, so you get more "omph" and imediacy when the gas pedal is pressed. the inverse is "eco pro" which neuters throtle inputs and very quickly upshifts to the highest gear possible to save fuel.

the dynamic handlign package, which includes dynamic dampers (all US lingo), uses the same "switch" by the gear lever but adjusts -- in addition to the transmission/steering/throtle described above -- the suspension damping and firmness and ride quality. the package also let's you chose whether the click of the switch by the gear selector adjust: 1) the "drivetrain" (tranny/steering/throtle) only; 2) the chasis = suspension etc only; or 3) both chasis and drivetrain. For the "chasis" = suspension, "comfort" is what I call the buick mode (very comfortable and floaty), "sport" stiffens everything up to feel like a regualr 3 series bmw. "sport plus" feels like a sports suspension 3 series.
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      11-20-2012, 12:11 PM   #32
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If you guys followed the European model, you wouldn't have the confusion, you have two 'DDC' components. Dynamic Damping Control and Dynamic Driving Control (or do you use Drive Dynamic Control).

We have DDC and VDC. Drive Dynamic Control, the switch function which doesn't have to have adaptive suspension included, and Variable Damping Control, the active damping.

No confusion this side of the pond.

BTW, I'm familiar with all the configuration differences, as I have the full Adaptive Drive package in my 535i.... VDC,(DDC) ARS, DDC and SAT. With Comfort, Normal, Sport and Sport+ on the toggle.

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      11-20-2012, 02:18 PM   #33
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Wow you guys sure beat this horse.

Up here (USA jr.) we get the "dynamic comfort package" which includes dynamic dampers using the "check box"... Just like in the USA we have to check the box to get adjustable suspension.

Hpete, if you want to muddy the waters some more, in Europe you can get sport suspension which isn't available in NA.
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      11-20-2012, 04:10 PM   #34
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Hpete, if you want to muddy the waters some more, in Europe you can get sport suspension which isn't available in NA.
I'll muddy the waters... from the BMWUSA site, what is the "sport suspension delete", on the M Sport package. Not the European M-Sport suspension?

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      11-20-2012, 04:49 PM   #35
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I'll muddy the waters... from the BMWUSA site, what is the "sport suspension delete", on the M Sport package. Not the European M-Sport suspension?

HighlandPete
that means you'll get the "regular" suspension that comes in the x3 USA version had you not ordered any packages.

OK, I hereby officially declare this horse dead. .
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      11-27-2012, 08:39 AM   #36
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I've tried to follow a few of the horse beating threads on this topic but as a newcomer to this confusion, I found this post helpful:
http://x3.xbimmers.com/forums/showpo...67&postcount=8

Statements like "If you want dynamic dampening, you have to order DHP" are not helpful to those of us trying to keep our heads above water.

In terms of driver capabilities, is this right?:
1) The ability to push a button named the "Dynamic Driving Control button" for Comfort, Sport and Sport Plus is standard and affects steering and acceleration points
2) The Sport Activity Package (SAP) adds cosmetic stuff like sports seats, trim and leather steering wheel to provide an emotional "sportier" feel.
3) With the M-Sport package, you get the emotional sportier feel of the seats, a different trim, 19" wheels and some other stuff AS WELL AS the suspension is tuned differently by BMW to a "sportier" feel. Steering and acceleration points are programmed by the "Dynamic Driving Control button".
4) Without the M-Sport package, the suspension is tuned by BMW to a "normal" feel. Steering and acceleration points are programmed by the "Dynamic Driving Control button".
5) With the Dynamic Handling Package (DHP), the button ALSO changes the suspension
6) With the DHP package, the car will adjust steering, and acceleration "on the fly" based on conditions

BTW, if you feel I've stated something wrong, please copy/paste the whole list and correct it. That way, by the time we're done, there's a complete and definitive dead horse that doesn't require a BMW decoder ring for the meaning of overloaded terms like "Dynamic", "Active" and "Adaptive".

TIA
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      11-27-2012, 10:22 AM   #37
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There are two suspensions available in North America, adjustable and non-adjustable.

The first is the non-adjustable variety equipped on all 28i and 35i models (All cars regardless of trim level) There is no specifically tuned 'sport' suspension on North American cars. European cars have different suspension (normal vs sport) without dynamic/variable dampers. I'm sure one of our European forum members can confirm this.

The second is the adjustable variety on cars equipped with dynamic (variable) dampers. You have to purchase this 'stand-alone' option by checking the box. There is no other way to get adjustable suspension without paying $1300usd/$1400cnd.

That's it folks.
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      11-27-2012, 09:49 PM   #38
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Cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by lbjgh View Post
There are two suspensions available in North America, adjustable and non-adjustable....
Then the dead horse is this:
1) The ability to push a button named the "Dynamic Driving Control button" for Comfort, Sport and Sport Plus is standard and affects steering and acceleration points
2) The Sport Activity Package (SAP) adds *mostly* cosmetic stuff like sports seats, trim and leather steering wheel to provide an emotional "sportier" feel.
3) With the M-Sport package, you get the emotional sportier feel of the seats, a different trim, 19" wheels and some other stuff. Steering and acceleration points are programmed by the "Dynamic Driving Control button".
4) With the Dynamic Handling Package (DHP), the button ALSO changes the suspension
5) With the DHP package, the car will adjust steering, and acceleration "on the fly" based on conditions

Not sure about 5).
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      11-27-2012, 11:03 PM   #39
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Sounds good.

#5 acceleration is controlled by your right foot but throttle response may be adjusted by the dynamic driving control button provided you have not selected suspension only under driving mode (sport).
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      11-28-2012, 11:01 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ErnestHouse View Post
Then the dead horse is this:
1) The ability to push a button named the "Dynamic Driving Control button" for Comfort, Sport and Sport Plus is standard and affects steering and acceleration points
2) The Sport Activity Package (SAP) adds *mostly* cosmetic stuff like sports seats, trim and leather steering wheel to provide an emotional "sportier" feel.
3) With the M-Sport package, you get the emotional sportier feel of the seats, a different trim, 19" wheels and some other stuff. Steering and acceleration points are programmed by the "Dynamic Driving Control button".
4) With the Dynamic Handling Package (DHP), the button ALSO changes the suspension
5) With the DHP package, the car will adjust steering, and acceleration "on the fly" based on conditions


Not sure about 5).
add 6) SAP also gives Sport automatic transmission with paddle shifters

edit - it appears the sport shift auto is a 35i only option- interesting...
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      11-29-2012, 05:38 AM   #41
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The system then calculates the best setting for each individual wheel and continually adjusts its suspension accordingly [comment: this is the adaptive and adjustable part]. With Electronic Damping Control, the BMW X3 hugs every curve in the road while providing a comfortable and safe ride.

That's the "dynamic" part
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      11-29-2012, 06:27 AM   #42
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Thumbs up



Revised with italicized sections:
1) The ability to push a button named the "Dynamic Driving Control button" for Comfort, Sport and Sport Plus is standard and affects steering and acceleration points
2) The Sport Activity Package (SAP) adds *mostly* cosmetic stuff like sports seats, trim and leather steering wheel to provide an emotional "sportier" feel. It also has paddle shifter controls to the standard sport transmission that lets you shift manually with the gear shifter.
3) With the M-Sport package, you get the emotional sportier feel of the seats, a different trim, 19" wheels and some other stuff. Steering and acceleration points are programmed by the "Dynamic Driving Control button".
4) With the Dynamic Handling Package (DHP), the button ALSO changes the suspension
5) With the DHP package, acceleration is controlled by your right foot but throttle response may be adjusted by the dynamic driving control button provided you have not selected suspension only under driving mode (sport).
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      11-30-2012, 03:26 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ErnestHouse View Post


Revised with italicized sections:
1) The ability to push a button named the "Dynamic Driving Control button" for Comfort, Sport and Sport Plus is standard and affects steering and acceleration points
2) The Sport Activity Package (SAP) adds *mostly* cosmetic stuff like sports seats, trim and leather steering wheel to provide an emotional "sportier" feel. It also has paddle shifter controls to the standard sport transmission that lets you shift manually with the gear shifter.
3) With the M-Sport package, you get the emotional sportier feel of the seats, a different trim, 19" wheels and some other stuff. Steering and acceleration points are programmed by the "Dynamic Driving Control button".
4) With the Dynamic Handling Package (DHP), the button ALSO changes the suspension
5) With the DHP package, acceleration is controlled by your right foot but throttle response may be adjusted by the dynamic driving control button provided you have not selected suspension only under driving mode (sport).
Best explantion I've seen.

The reason this horse keeps getting pulled out of the ground for another beating is because the engineering geeks that write the BMW manual and website are horrendous communicators of this option. DHP is incredibly misunderstood.
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      11-30-2012, 04:07 PM   #44
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An addition may be the Dynamic Damping Control (one of the terms) that keeps moving around from packages, to optional with packages, has been renamed and is called different things in different markets. That's the bit where if you have it the suspension gets input from the sensors and adjusts the suspension on the fly. This is not the choice between, say, comfort and sport. It's more like the front right wheel hits a pot hole and the right rear adjusts to anticipate it. I'm no expert and have no inside knowledge, but it looks like that's currently included in the DHP.
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