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      07-27-2012, 02:42 PM   #23
kmarei
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Originally Posted by plymjack View Post
However it does improve over time as posters are here are repeatedly trying to explain.
i saw that, but that's opinion, not fact
but i have yet to see scientific proof
the most i have seen was like a 0.2 db difference in sensitivity,
i am pretty sure no ear on this planet can detect that minute a change
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      07-27-2012, 03:54 PM   #24
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I can't give you scientific proof but can tell you that I have purchased high-end speakers and headphones that come with instructions on how to break them in. They wouldn't provide this advice unless they knew it was needed.
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      07-27-2012, 04:27 PM   #25
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Speakers are moving parts, so as you play them they loosen up. Same as when you buy something with a hinge or other moving part, when it's new it's nice and stiff and after a while it gets loose and moves more freely. You also burn the coils in a bit, but I would venture a guess that this doesn't have as much of an effect.

When the speakers are stiff they sound more shrill, the wavelengths they produce aren't as smooth. Once they loosen up they get a bit warmer as their transitions are easier and smoother.

Cheaper speakers aren't very stiff to begin with, so they don't really "break-in" but more expensive ones are built with higher quality components, better materials, and are more stiff in the beginning. Hence, break-in.
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      07-27-2012, 05:22 PM   #26
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Break-in is a real thing at least for speakers and headphones. I have experienced it time and time again - the speaker's bass performance improves as the spider and cone loosen up, and the change can be rather significant, going from harsh and shrill to balanced and smooth.
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      07-27-2012, 11:23 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crash Test View Post
I can't give you scientific proof but can tell you that I have purchased high-end speakers and headphones that come with instructions on how to break them in. They wouldn't provide this advice unless they knew it was needed.
+1.

My Paradigm speakers in my home were very clear in their break-in instructions.
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      07-28-2012, 07:15 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmarei View Post
i saw that, but that's opinion, not fact
but i have yet to see scientific proof
the most i have seen was like a 0.2 db difference in sensitivity,
i am pretty sure no ear on this planet can detect that minute a change
I think most of the break-in periods for professional home theater systems, headphones, etc, are mentioned by the manufacturer in order to give the user's brain "time" to get used to the new system, and not return it right away from first listen.

Certainly, it's reasonable that newer speakers aren't as "loosened" up as "broken-in" ones, else if there is no change... why do speakers eventually break/rip/pop/crack from overuse? Something does wear to a point of destruction, so in the beginning, that same wear may serve as a break-in.
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      07-28-2012, 11:42 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by NYCX3 View Post
I think most of the break-in periods for professional home theater systems, headphones, etc, are mentioned by the manufacturer in order to give the user's brain "time" to get used to the new system, and not return it right away from first listen.
bingo
I'd like to measure a speaker when new
And again after 100 hours of "break in"
I doubt there will be any difference
I don't think speaker surrounds affect the sound
And that's the only think I can think of that changes after break in
The voice coil is a wire, it doesn't break in, nor change over time (unless you're using it above rates specs)
The spider maybe does get a bit looser, but to affect the sound?
I doubt it
I think the 2 components that affect the sound a lot are the cone and the material it's made from
And the speaker basket and the material it's made from
Neither of those change after break in
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      07-29-2012, 12:51 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmarei View Post
bingo
I'd like to measure a speaker when new
And again after 100 hours of "break in"
I doubt there will be any difference
I don't think speaker surrounds affect the sound
And that's the only think I can think of that changes after break in
The voice coil is a wire, it doesn't break in, nor change over time (unless you're using it above rates specs)
The spider maybe does get a bit looser, but to affect the sound?
I doubt it
I think the 2 components that affect the sound a lot are the cone and the material it's made from
And the speaker basket and the material it's made from
Neither of those change after break in
The beauty of opinion!
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      07-29-2012, 08:11 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmarei View Post
i saw that, but that's opinion, not fact
but i have yet to see scientific proof
the most i have seen was like a 0.2 db difference in sensitivity,
i am pretty sure no ear on this planet can detect that minute a change
First of all, what procent represent 0,2 dB from the whole sensitivity ? Maybe you do not detect directly changes like a distinct tone, but will be a changes in the music timbre.The speakers interacts with the final amplifier, so, the final sound is a complex sum of elements. Second, you speak only about the speakers, but the capacitors ? Especialy electrolityc capacitors ?

If you take a new car and measure the power, will see almost the same power like a burn-in engine. We talk about delicate changes.
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      07-29-2012, 10:53 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by greierasul View Post
We talk about delicate changes.
Exactly
Delicate changes that I don't think the ear (or measuring equipment) can detect
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      07-29-2012, 11:12 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmarei View Post
Exactly
Delicate changes that I don't think the ear (or measuring equipment) can detect
I think it depends on whose ears... Most people seem to be able to determine a improvement as their system beds down as has been posted here by many X3'ers, maybe it is to delicate for some peoples ears?.

The ear is a fantastic sensory organ and will pick up some very small changes, but the improvement in the new speakers is clearly aurally discernible by most users.
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      07-29-2012, 11:35 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plymjack View Post
I think it depends on whose ears... Most people seem to be able to determine a improvement as their system beds down as has been posted here by many X3'ers, maybe it is to delicate for some peoples ears?.

The ear is a fantastic sensory organ and will pick up some very small changes, but the improvement in the new speakers is clearly aurally discernible by most users.
Most people "sense" an improvement with after market air filters
But most dynos don't show any HP gain
On the contrary, some of those filters actually lose power
So what we perceive, and what is fact, don't always match up

If you are saying there are noticeable differences
How come no scientific test has ever measured this ?
I've searched a lot for any measurements done on new speakers, and those same speakers after this so called break in
Never found any that showed a difference that was outside the margin of error for the tests
0.2db is small enough that it could be measuring error
And I doubt any ear here can detect 0.2db
The average wear can't detect changes less than 3db
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      07-29-2012, 09:50 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmarei View Post
Most people "sense" an improvement with after market air filters
But most dynos don't show any HP gain
On the contrary, some of those filters actually lose power
So what we perceive, and what is fact, don't always match up

If you are saying there are noticeable differences
How come no scientific test has ever measured this ?
I've searched a lot for any measurements done on new speakers, and those same speakers after this so called break in
Never found any that showed a difference that was outside the margin of error for the tests
0.2db is small enough that it could be measuring error
And I doubt any ear here can detect 0.2db
The average wear can't detect changes less than 3db

Certainly, Placebo effect has been documented very well also, whereas, the mind can be fooled to manifest an effect or perception that is real to the person. I do not doubt there is some element of placebo effect involved with these type of things, but neither do I deny physical changes to the moving parts, it's the nature of all atoms and matter... to wear out or break away, now whether the sound is changed at obvious level of perception, is up to scientific proof and individual perception. So until then, we are just throwing opinions around.
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