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      05-06-2012, 03:02 PM   #23
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Ask your dealer..

To many people have the same experience with more engine power over a certain km that can be explained with just less friction...
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      05-06-2012, 03:20 PM   #24
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Asked

Two friends who work for high end dealerships and have done so for the last 15 years, and the response from both of them was...

"Bollocks! Completely untrue. Your OP is a conspiracy theorist who will tell you next that the government in Norway can remotely control his car."

I would go back to reading Eric Von Daniken if I were you.

And again if you have concrete proof let's see it.
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      05-06-2012, 04:28 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by X3andZ4owner View Post
Ask your dealer..

To many people have the same experience with more engine power over a certain km that can be explained with just less friction...
As I mentioned earlier, the S1000RR has the restriction on engine performance to "redline" at 9kRPM until the break-in interval has passed. BMWNA and dealers are pretty open on letting folks know this. But, then, only getting 9k out of an engine that's limited to 14,2k normally would be rather obvious, too.
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      05-06-2012, 04:57 PM   #26
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Transparency

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Originally Posted by Razel View Post
As I mentioned earlier, the S1000RR has the restriction on engine performance to "redline" at 9kRPM until the break-in interval has passed. BMWNA and dealers are pretty open on letting folks know this. But, then, only getting 9k out of an engine that's limited to 14,2k normally would be rather obvious, too.
The key point here is transparency. It's made clear to the customer what restrictions are in place, for how long, and why. IOW public knowledge and disclosure. In the case of Norwegian conspiracy theories this is obviously not the case over there.

OK - time to get back to Area 51 Autozone - I hear some aliens are arriving to have the performance chip unlocked on their spaceship.
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      05-06-2012, 05:48 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Chef View Post
The key point here is transparency. It's made clear to the customer what restrictions are in place, for how long, and why. IOW public knowledge and disclosure. In the case of Norwegian conspiracy theories this is obviously not the case over there.

OK - time to get back to Area 51 Autozone - I hear some aliens are arriving to have the performance chip unlocked on their spaceship.
Maybe you should take of your aluminum foil cap instead... The dealers here are pretty open with this issue.. I've heard it from 2 customers now and both got the info from the dealer..

But still , I have no physical proof ...If its in the root program it's pretty well hidden if your not at auto engine computer genius ...
But I don't see this as impossible on the contrary I see this as a logical evolution as the engines are getting more and more sophisticated and computer controlled ...

You talk about transparency ...can you please give me the os x root code then... ? Why should the BMW engine root code be open ? It isn't ...
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      05-06-2012, 05:51 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by X3andZ4owner View Post
Ask your dealer..
One major flaw with this advice is assuming that they generally actually know what they are talking about at this depth of detail... one step too far in my experience
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      05-06-2012, 05:57 PM   #29
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Isn't it obvious that the dealers just say , drive the car from day one as you wish? That the engine is runned in from the factory optimal when delivered ... If the dealers get this advice from the factory / bmw centrally there must be a string attached.. And I think this string is that the engine brake in period is computer controlled.. Why can they so confident that the engine won't take damage otherwise if not handled optimally from the customer?
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      05-06-2012, 05:59 PM   #30
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The guys I know are both official dealer techs with over 30 years worth of experience with Audi, BMW and Porsche and both said this was rubbish. I'll take two guys opinion who earn their money fixing problems than two customers who heard it from a dealer...

Let's see the official BMW paperwork that instructs the dealer techs and customers that this actually happens.
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      05-06-2012, 06:05 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Chef View Post
The guys I know are both official dealer techs with over 30 years worth of experience with Audi, BMW and Porsche and both said this was rubbish. I'll take two guys opinion who earn their money fixing problems than two customers who heard it from a dealer...

Let's see the official BMW paperwork that instructs the dealer techs and customers that this actually happens.
As I wrote, isn't it obvious that the car doesn't need brake in? At least my car didn't need any kind of break in the dealer told me..

And by the way one doesn't need 30 years of car selling experience to understand the last 5 years of car engine evolution...
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      05-06-2012, 06:25 PM   #32
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In the US the manual suggests a break-in procedure. It's all there officially out in the open. Page 120.
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      05-06-2012, 06:28 PM   #33
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From an Honda Acura forum:


Break-in period myth
The sales told me my tl runs a software for the first 600 miles, so during this break-in period, the engine output is actually regulated at 85%. In another word, no matter how hard you floor your engine, it is not going to do any damage.

Anyone heard the samething?

Another one quotes :

Normal driving is all that is required to break-in a modern engine. The added verbiage is too keep idiots from red-lining their brand new Honda and possibly causing a warranty claim. There is a BMW that came with a moving yellow/red-line (M-3) to keep idiots from hammering the right pedal until the car was broken in/warmed up.
For those of you who quote from the owners manual like it was a bible, welcome to the church of H.
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      05-07-2012, 07:16 AM   #34
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I'd definitely like to read some info about car companies restricting power during initial break in, especially some verbiage from a manufacturer that follows this practice (and some random quote from a forum saying 'well the sales person told me' doesn't hold much merit. Most folks that participate in these fourms know far more than their sales rep anyway. I strongly believe that manufactures limiting power in NORMAL production vehicles is 100% false but I am wrong a lot so I'm looking to learn!

BMW also has a specific set of paremeters they ask their customers to follow during break in. No red line, no constant cruising speed, etc...

I will say that I am on the fence about engine break in procedures. I have read so many articles ranging from 'Drive it like you stole it on the first day' to baby it for 5000 miles. I think it's within reason to not tickle the red line the first few miles but I definitely don't follow the conservative break in approach either.

Last edited by n55x3; 05-07-2012 at 07:22 AM.
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      05-07-2012, 07:25 AM   #35
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Re Le Chef

One other thing, did you know that your car stores your drive-pattern even down to each brake-light activation you have made for the last months?

When you have the car to service this info is downloaded and sendt to BMW for analysis for present and future research...

Did you give your consent to this???

:-)
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      05-07-2012, 07:53 AM   #36
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I'm with LeChef and others on this one....I call shenanigans...including the info being downloaded by bmw and sent off for analysis. First of all, your car needs to be in the shop in order for them to download....

In any event, can't speak to the EU, but I have ZERO doubts that this doesn't exist in North American vehicles. As someone pointed out earlier, if an individual were ever to dyno their bmw a few weeks after taking delivery and discovered that their vehicle had some form of limiter set, there'd be hell to pay....particularly around 'false advertising'.....

IMHO, bmw & other manufacturers mitigate their responsibility by telling the owner how to break-in the vehicle, via the owner's manual. If someone is crazy enough to red-line their new vehicle, it becomes their problem, not bmw's...or any other manufacturer.

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      05-07-2012, 08:00 AM   #37
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The original claim is nothing more than urban myth and frankly a form of trolling. I spoke to a couple more tech guys from high end dealers and they laughed and said it just didn't exist.

As to black box tracking - that will become legal and the public are being and will be informed.
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      05-07-2012, 08:49 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Chef View Post
The original claim is nothing more than urban myth and frankly a form of trolling. I spoke to a couple more tech guys from high end dealers and they laughed and said it just didn't exist.

As to black box tracking - that will become legal and the public are being and will be informed.
So, the black box tracking that has been around since 10 years now finaly is out of the box... and you still doubt that the engine is software restricted during the break in period...

Splitt personality?
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      05-07-2012, 10:04 AM   #39
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Not at all

Quote:
Originally Posted by X3andZ4owner View Post
So, the black box tracking that has been around since 10 years now finaly is out of the box... and you still doubt that the engine is software restricted during the break in period...

Splitt personality?
Private enterprise vs. government. Two completely separate issues.
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      05-07-2012, 10:38 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Chef View Post
Private enterprise vs. government. Two completely separate issues.
The diagnostics that BMW downloads from your car is not goverment controlled... Engine statistics, drivepattern and a couple of 100 other parameters are use by BMW to develop new and more efficient engines..
Your car is a testlab for BMW if we look at it closer.. :-)

Last edited by X3andZ4owner; 05-07-2012 at 10:51 AM.
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      05-07-2012, 11:03 AM   #41
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Too funny....getting a bit ridiculous now. Must be something in the water in Norway....
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      05-07-2012, 11:06 AM   #42
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You're missing the point

Quote:
Originally Posted by X3andZ4owner View Post
The diagnostics that BMW downloads from your car is not goverment controlled... Engine statistics, drivepattern and a couple of 100 other parameters are use by BMW to develop new and more efficient engines..
Your car is a testlab for BMW if we look at it closer.. :-)
The issue is deception. Do BMW and others withhold full performance of your vehicle without telling you? Obviously in Norway there is deception. In the US that hidden reduction of performance is not present, so there's no deception. End of discussion.

If you have proof that in US BMW withholds performance of the vehicles they sell here, without telling the customer, then I would like to see it, and so would a number of government bodies. So if you have written proof that this takes place in the US, please share that written proof with us. A lot of owners here I'm sure would love to see it.
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      05-07-2012, 11:48 AM   #43
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Le Chef ,I see your point and I agree with your argument but that doesn say that I dont think that theres something in the info I recieved from the dealership..

In an Ideal world everything is transparent... In the same way as the Iphone sends messeges to apple co about your usage and car manufactors use your driving pattern and engine diagnostics to develop new software and efficient engines .. i can see that car engines are software restricted in the break in period to prevent early breakdown, warranty issues and risking bad reputation for early worn out engines.. The software in the engine is not static , as what i heard it adapts to your driving pattern.

I will try to dig deeper in to the issue and come back when I have more info..

Last edited by X3andZ4owner; 05-07-2012 at 12:05 PM.
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      05-07-2012, 12:27 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by X3andZ4owner View Post
Le Chef ,I see your point and I agree with your argument but that doesn say that I dont think that theres something in the info I recieved from the dealership..

In an Ideal world everything is transparent... In the same way as the Iphone sends messeges to apple co about your usage and car manufactors use your driving pattern and engine diagnostics to develop new software and efficient engines .. i can see that car engines are software restricted in the break in period to prevent early breakdown, warranty issues and risking bad reputation for early worn out engines.. The software in the engine is not static , as what i heard it adapts to your driving pattern.

I will try to dig deeper in to the issue and come back when I have more info..


I would like to add my experience - I am no Norwegan but a Dane living in Switzerland, but I tend to agree with my Norvegan fellow here.

My last Toyoya Avensis D-Cat 177HP changed significant atttitude when reaching 11000km - engine loosened signifant up; reacted faster, more power => felt like another engine.
My current X3 2.0D did the same with app 10000km.
A friend have experienced the same with two Range Rover diesels - one V6 and one V8.

I have for sure no evidence that this is something BMW, Toyota and RR do in general, but my experience is that "something" is happening with the engine around 10K km

Rgds
Jens
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