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      12-23-2011, 02:21 AM   #1
rgx3
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Rusty spots on my garage floor under my new X3?

It may seem trivial to some but this is the most I've ever paid for anything but my house and to have wet rusty drip spots on the garage floor after only 400 miles is like getting a piece of sand when eating an oyster. It turns out the two muffler hangers are not painted or coated with anything and have already rusted. I'm sure I can clean and brush some heat resistant paint on them to correct the problem but it seems weird that they are bare metal. I've inquired with my dealer to see if my muffler is defective but haven't heard back yet. Anybody else notice this on theirs?
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      12-23-2011, 04:54 AM   #2
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Please post pics
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      12-23-2011, 03:02 PM   #3
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Pics as requested.............it's worse than I first thought.

The entire leg of the exhaust system aft of the mid muffler/cat? is rusting in various spots. In addition the bottom of the muffler is rough and whatever is making it feel rough doesn't just come off by wipping with my hand like I would think 400 miles of road dirt would. Almost feels like flaking.
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      12-23-2011, 08:31 PM   #4
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That's pretty aggressive rusting after only 400 miles. The heat going through the exhaust will only serve to increase the rate of corrosion!
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      12-23-2011, 11:20 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lotus7 View Post
The muffler and tailpipe welds are designed to last precisely 1461 days after delivery (the duration of the BMW NA warranty). The exhaust system falls off on day 1462.
You are joking, right?
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      12-23-2011, 11:47 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lotus7 View Post
Joking, who me?

BMW spends millions of Euros on advanced super-computer modeling and simulations of product durability. The NA warranty is good for 1461 days. After that any replacement parts and installation labor charges are at the owner's expense and represent a positive input into the profit center model. You can decide who's joking and who is the "butt" of the joke.
Sorry misread 142 days I get only 730 days. So from your posts I gather that rust level is normal on the X3 if you don't coat.
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      12-24-2011, 12:54 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lotus7 View Post
Joking, who me?

BMW spends millions of Euros on advanced super-computer modeling and simulations of product durability. The NA warranty is good for 1461 days. After that any replacement parts and installation labor charges are at the owner's expense and represent a positive input into the profit center model. You can decide who's joking and who is the "butt" of the joke.
I think you are joking... but I will bite.

There is no possible way BMW can design the components of the car to last for such a specific period of time. Obviously, the way the vehicle is driven and its environment can have a huge impact on the lifespan of any part. As such, BMW has to design the vehicle for some of the harsher conditions. And it represents a much larger profit to the company to have brand reputation as being a reliable car than it does making a buck from repair costs for now unhappy customers who will be looking elsewhere for their next car...

On a site note I would be intrigued to know what the "industry standard" is for driving conditions (loads / cycles / temperatures / ect) as well as the factor of safety used across the car.
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      12-24-2011, 02:36 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lotus7 View Post
*With modern computers and the Internet, anything is possible. A fact only known to a few selected “industry insiders” (please don’t repeat this in public): The cars are designed for a specific driving cycle based on research derived by following a 78-year-old women living in Fort Lauderdale who drives her car 3 blocks to church and back home once each week. The operating temperature range limits are 65.3 to 87.1 degrees F. Anything more stressful than that is beyond the design margins for the cars.

Long-term profits based on brand loyalty and return customers are irrelevant. Selling new cars is essentially a "Ponzi" scheme in which the sales to new "customers" keep profits flowing, and the last quartet's profits are all that matters. With 100’s of millions of potential new customers available, there is no need to have any repeat customers. That's the business philosophy currently being taught at the most prestigious business schools and is the basis of the nearly perfect US economic system. Therefore, it must be correct.

Brand reputation is valueless. In fact there is a thread on this very Forum that conclusively proves beyond a shadow of a doubt, that a KIA costing $20,000 less than an X3 is actually a better car. Anyone who spends more on a BMW must be psychotic. I rest my case.*
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      12-24-2011, 09:59 AM   #9
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Have your roads been salted recently? Salt will increase your oxidation.
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      12-24-2011, 10:26 AM   #10
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While there is some joking by Lotus, he has a very valid point. Car companies could design a car and its associated parts to last 50 years if they wanted. However, its not in their best interest to do so. I work in aerospace, we do the same thing. The length of time we build a component to last is a combination of warranty expectations in conjunction with "common" usage and environmental conditions. We do use super computers to predict how long something will last and then we prove it by doing highly accelerated stress testing. I have no doubt that car companies engineer its cars in a similar method.

In my opinion, brand loyalty is more about the experience while the car is under warranty. It seems that most people that do buy a BMW, or any new car for that matter, will not typically keep this car for the life of the car (probably estimated between 10-15 years). Most people that buy new cars will keep the car for the length of the warranty or slightly outside of it, and then buy a new one. In my opinion, this is where brand loyalty is important, not in how long the components will last once outside the warranty.
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      12-24-2011, 02:57 PM   #11
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No salt.............maybe pepper?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Radioactive View Post
Have your roads been salted recently? Salt will increase your oxidation.
As far as I know they only use sand or a deicing chemical in my area. The car has been garaged (insulated and dry garage) when not being driven. One thing I did notice is that after being driven in wet conditions, there would be quite a bit of water under the rear of the vehicle. An amount that I would expect from snow melting that was caught up in the under carriage. Since it was not driven in the snow, I think water can get trapped under the many underbody heat shields, insulated panels, and plastic covers. So when the exhaust cools, instead of remaining dry, this water drips down on the exhaust and the result is accelerated rusting. If the exhaust is truly not protected with corrosion resistant paint or other coating as designed and built, I will end up using a rust converter and high temp coating in these areas. This rust issue is certainly souring our new car experience even if it's nothing to worry about structurally or functionally.
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      12-25-2011, 12:18 AM   #12
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This is the very reason I have my cars sprayed at krown.com

My sales guy recommended that we not spray a bmw... the posted pictures suggest otherwise.
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      12-25-2011, 12:34 AM   #13
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Apparently the scrap steel from my '67 many-windowed VW Micro Bus has had the good fortune to be reincarnated as a BMW exhaust system.
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      12-25-2011, 02:11 AM   #14
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So what does this have to do with my rusty exhaust?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lbjgh View Post
This is the very reason I have my cars sprayed at krown.com

My sales guy recommended that we not spray a bmw... the posted pictures suggest otherwise.
The Krown process does not cover the exhaust system or other drive train parts. It is for the body and frame. Or do they just forget to mention treating those areas on their website?
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      12-25-2011, 08:52 AM   #15
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nop krown sprays all the exposed underside... in just burns off of the brakes and exhaust.

In any case I hope this rusting exhaust is isolated...
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      12-30-2011, 01:26 PM   #16
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So no one else has rust like this on their exhaust?

Could some of you please look at yours and/or take pictures of the same areas please. I'm trying to figure out if I have a unique situation or if all X3 exhaust systems will rust in this way. Thanks in advance.
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      12-31-2011, 12:27 AM   #17
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Wish mine looked like that.

Your photo only makes my situation seem more unique not the same. The rust that has already developed on my exhaust is flaking layers of material off. Yours looks very light and surface only. Mine might look like that after I wire brush it. Thanks for the photo.
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      12-31-2011, 12:32 AM   #18
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More photos please.

I could really use some more photos showing the same areas of the exhaust that I have taken. It's really hard to talk to the dealer and explain why I think this is unacceptable if I have no comparison photos. It took me just a few minutes, a piece of cardboard, and a digital camera. Thanks in advance for additional photos.
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      01-07-2012, 08:41 PM   #19
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My car has almost 10,000 miles and is 7 months old. It has seen very little road salt yet.
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      01-09-2012, 12:53 AM   #20
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Thanks for the pictures

Now I have at least a couple of examples to show the dealer and BMW USA head quarters. Thanks.
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      01-10-2012, 07:46 AM   #21
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OK, here's mine. It's a five month old 2.0d, lives outside all the time. Roads not salted but I live on a small island and there is always a lot of salt in the air.

Hope this helps.

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      01-10-2012, 11:08 AM   #22
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Will the anti-corrosive High temp paint lengthen the life of these parts and give us peace of mind?
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