BMW X3 Forum
BMW X3 Forum
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
XBimmers | BMW X3 Forum > BMW X3 Forums | F25 (2011 - Current) > Second Generation BMW X3 General Forum » all-season tires in snow

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      11-27-2011, 10:57 PM   #1
cadman50
Second Lieutenant
 
Drives: 2012 X3 35i
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Massachusetts

Posts: 261
iTrader: (0)

all-season tires in snow

In the last 8 years I've had 20" snowtires to replace my summer 20" tires based on what I've read about how the 20" all season's do in the snow. The snow tires handled great even plowing thru the berms on the sides of the roads the plows left. But I never got a chance to try driving in the snow with the stock all season tires. What's the opinions of people that have just driven with their 19" all-sesaons on all winter in snow? Do you slide around alot? Does the AWD system do a decent job?
cadman50 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      11-28-2011, 12:24 AM   #2
soj
Private
 
Drives: 2008 328i, SP, PP, CW
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: NYC

Posts: 61
iTrader: (0)

Never have ever used snow tires. Lived in the northeast with no problem and now living in the west coast never had problems in lake tahoe blizzards either. Snow tires are
Mainly sold to ppl who have summer tires. If u have all seasons, not worth getting the small increase in benefit by getting snows.
__________________
-------------
2011 X3 28i CB, Black Int, MSport, HiFi ,HSeats, Nav and Xenons
2008 328i SG PP SP CW
2005 330i SG PP CW
soj is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      11-28-2011, 02:57 AM   #3
Lotus7
Major
 
Drives: xxxx
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: xxxx

Posts: 1,041
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by soj View Post
--- If u have all seasons, not worth getting the small increase in benefit by getting snows.
The OP asked for "opinions" and you're entitled to your opinion, but, in reality, it's not ONLY a matter of personal opinion. There are provable performance differences. I've driven our Subaru Legacy GT and our old A4 Quattro in snow with both all-seasons and with real snow tires and FOR ME the difference is dramatic and well worth the cost and nuisance of having to change wheels twice each year. Also, although the winter tires don't QUITE pay for themselves by reducing wear on your all-seasons or summer tires and extending their life, they more than pay for themselves through the increased safety they provide.

There have been plenty of independent tests published on-line, in car magazines and by manufacturers that prove conclusively that current winter/snow tires can make a big difference, especially in braking. The latest test done by Tire Rack resulted in stopping distances from only 12 mph on snow of 35 feet for new winter/snow tires and 53 feet for new all-seasons. At higher speeds the differences will be much greater.

For you, a difference of 64% shorter stopping distance might be a "small increase", for me it might be the difference between a safe stop and a collision.

There are plenty of drivers who successfully drive with all-seasons all year long in snow-belt areas, but I'd wager that more of them have collisions and get stuck in drifts than drivers with proper winter tires.

Over the life of a new car, the cost of winter/snow tires is trivial when you factor in the increased life of your "other" tires*, but hey, there are people driving around in snow in 20 year old rear wheel drive cars with bald summer tires who believe that "it's not worth getting the small increase in benefit" to get new ones.

Everyone is entitled to his/her opinion, but in some situations personal opinion does not match the reality of a situation.

Disclaimer: I get free air (to inflate my snow tires) from my Tire Rack friends in South Bend, IN for every set of snow tires I help sell.

* Be kind to your all-season tires. They really like the 5 month vacation. If you can, take then to Florida for a month or so while they're resting in January.

Last edited by Lotus7; 11-28-2011 at 03:17 AM.
Lotus7 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      11-28-2011, 06:22 AM   #4
richardew
Second Lieutenant
 
richardew's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 x335i
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: suburban Phila

Posts: 272
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
For you, a difference of 64% shorter stopping distance might be a "small increase", for me it might be the difference between a safe stop and a collision.

I've been changing over my tires for the past 7 years. IMO the biggest problem with all season tires and AWD is that the AWD will get you going in the snow but the all season tires don't STOP you in the snow. If you live in an area that gets snow (like MA) more than occasionally and you need to drive in it, winter tires are the way to go.
All season tires = mediocre performance year round!
I went with the staggered setup with summer performance tires and Pirelli Sottozero's for the winter.
If you absolutely positively have to get there either go FedEx or get winter tires.
__________________
Rich

'96 911 C4 Cab (276,000 1 owner smiles)
'11 X3 35i Black Sapphire/Beige,SAP, CP, CWP, DHP, PREM, TECH, Sat radio, Hi Fi, BMW apps, smartphone, 19" w/mixed performance tires.
richardew is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      11-28-2011, 07:23 AM   #5
JOHNBMWM5
Live for today tomorrow never comes
 
JOHNBMWM5's Avatar
 
Drives: 2015 M6 GC CP
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: UK

Posts: 5,299
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lotus7 View Post
The OP asked for "opinions" and you're entitled to your opinion, but, in reality, it's not ONLY a matter of personal opinion. There are provable performance differences. I've driven our Subaru Legacy GT and our old A4 Quattro in snow with both all-seasons and with real snow tires and FOR ME the difference is dramatic and well worth the cost and nuisance of having to change wheels twice each year. Also, although the winter tires don't QUITE pay for themselves by reducing wear on your all-seasons or summer tires and extending their life, they more than pay for themselves through the increased safety they provide.

There have been plenty of independent tests published on-line, in car magazines and by manufacturers that prove conclusively that current winter/snow tires can make a big difference, especially in braking. The latest test done by Tire Rack resulted in stopping distances from only 12 mph on snow of 35 feet for new winter/snow tires and 53 feet for new all-seasons. At higher speeds the differences will be much greater.

For you, a difference of 64% shorter stopping distance might be a "small increase", for me it might be the difference between a safe stop and a collision.

There are plenty of drivers who successfully drive with all-seasons all year long in snow-belt areas, but I'd wager that more of them have collisions and get stuck in drifts than drivers with proper winter tires.

Over the life of a new car, the cost of winter/snow tires is trivial when you factor in the increased life of your "other" tires*, but hey, there are people driving around in snow in 20 year old rear wheel drive cars with bald summer tires who believe that "it's not worth getting the small increase in benefit" to get new ones.

Everyone is entitled to his/her opinion, but in some situations personal opinion does not match the reality of a situation.

Disclaimer: I get free air (to inflate my snow tires) from my Tire Rack friends in South Bend, IN for every set of snow tires I help sell.

* Be kind to your all-season tires. They really like the 5 month vacation. If you can, take then to Florida for a month or so while they're resting in January.
AGREED winters all the way, much better in temps below 7 deg Celsius.
__________________
Live for now, life is too short.
2015 M6 GC with CP Alpine & Sakhir
JOHNBMWM5 is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      11-28-2011, 10:35 AM   #6
tuco44
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Drives: 2012 E82 135i MSport 6MT
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Western Canada

Posts: 1,594
iTrader: (0)

I agree with Lotus 7 and richardew 100%. All-Seasons should be called "no-seasons".
__________________
2012 135i E82 MSport 6MT Jet Black

Previous BMWs - 2012 135i MSport LMB DCT(sold), 2011 X3 35i MSport VR (sold), 2009 M3 Sedan AW (sold), 2008 535xi MSport AW (sold), 2007 328xiT Barbera (sold), plus 11 others in the 70s & 80s.
tuco44 is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      11-28-2011, 10:42 AM   #7
troggy1969
Second Lieutenant
 
Drives: X3 3.0D SE Bluewater
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Omagh uk

Posts: 247
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
All seasons are a compromise, OK but never good. If you intend to keep the car more than a 2 or 3 years, or intend to buy the same again in the future then a winter set is the way to go - if you have the space for storage.
troggy1969 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      11-28-2011, 10:52 AM   #8
soj
Private
 
Drives: 2008 328i, SP, PP, CW
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: NYC

Posts: 61
iTrader: (0)

Of course u guys are all entitled to your own opinions but enthusiasts aside 99% of the population drives all seasons fine. Yur the 1%.
__________________
-------------
2011 X3 28i CB, Black Int, MSport, HiFi ,HSeats, Nav and Xenons
2008 328i SG PP SP CW
2005 330i SG PP CW
soj is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      11-28-2011, 10:54 AM   #9
soj
Private
 
Drives: 2008 328i, SP, PP, CW
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: NYC

Posts: 61
iTrader: (0)

Lastly, snows would only be required if the majority of the time the roads in your commute is snow packed. If 80% of the time it's dry or just wet, can't imagine snow tires giving you anything.
__________________
-------------
2011 X3 28i CB, Black Int, MSport, HiFi ,HSeats, Nav and Xenons
2008 328i SG PP SP CW
2005 330i SG PP CW
soj is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      11-28-2011, 10:58 AM   #10
richardew
Second Lieutenant
 
richardew's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 x335i
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: suburban Phila

Posts: 272
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Lastly, snows would only be required if the majority of the time the roads in your commute is snow packed. If 80% of the time it's dry or just wet, can't imagine snow tires giving you anything.
Winter tires (not snows) give you better grip when it's cold also, not just in the snow. The 80% of the time when it's cold and dry they are better also.
__________________
Rich

'96 911 C4 Cab (276,000 1 owner smiles)
'11 X3 35i Black Sapphire/Beige,SAP, CP, CWP, DHP, PREM, TECH, Sat radio, Hi Fi, BMW apps, smartphone, 19" w/mixed performance tires.
richardew is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      11-28-2011, 12:55 PM   #11
sfax
Brigadier General
 
sfax's Avatar
 
Drives: BMW X3 2011 F25
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Berkshire, UK

Posts: 3,853
iTrader: (0)

We discussed this in this http://x3.xbimmers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=576271 thread and the statistics I saw for improved braking under 7C were insignificant IMO (like 5%). Lots of people seem to be under the illusion that as soon as they temperature drops below 7C you're suddenly so much safer but you aren't. Ice is another matter but if you hit ice you're in trouble whether you slide 30ft with winters or 50ft without. This is only based on the report in this thread so I would like to read some more stats on it. Obviously there are a lot of "independent" reports paid for by companies with vested interests

I was against getting them but came full circle and ended up getting some but this was mostly to give me the option of skiing in Europe in the future. You need significant snow and regular temps below 3C to make them worthwhile IMO.
__________________

F25 xDrive20d SE __ professional multimedia package | dynamic package | climate package | 309s | xline | xenons | electric seats | folding mirrors | business speakers
sfax is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      11-28-2011, 12:56 PM   #12
Lotus7
Major
 
Drives: xxxx
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: xxxx

Posts: 1,041
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by soj View Post
Of course u guys are all entitled to your own opinions but enthusiasts aside 99% of the population drives all seasons fine. Yur the 1%.
O crap!
I guess that the "99 Percenters" will be trying to shut us down after they trash Wall Street and the banks. Guys & Gals, get ready to guard your winter tires.
Lotus7 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      11-28-2011, 12:59 PM   #13
sfax
Brigadier General
 
sfax's Avatar
 
Drives: BMW X3 2011 F25
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Berkshire, UK

Posts: 3,853
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by richardew View Post
Winter tires (not snows) give you better grip when it's cold also, not just in the snow. The 80% of the time when it's cold and dry they are better also.
Where did you get this 80% statistic? The BTM link above states braking distance is slightly increased with winter tyres at 20C and at 5C. How cold does it have to get before they get better on dry roads? I'm not saying it's wrong, in fact, I'd be happier with my investment if I could see more winter tyre benefits
__________________

F25 xDrive20d SE __ professional multimedia package | dynamic package | climate package | 309s | xline | xenons | electric seats | folding mirrors | business speakers
sfax is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      11-28-2011, 01:02 PM   #14
sfax
Brigadier General
 
sfax's Avatar
 
Drives: BMW X3 2011 F25
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Berkshire, UK

Posts: 3,853
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by sfax View Post
We discussed this in this http://x3.xbimmers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=576271 thread and the statistics I saw for improved braking under 7C were insignificant IMO (like 5%). Lots of people seem to be under the illusion that as soon as they temperature drops below 7C you're suddenly so much safer but you aren't. Ice is another matter but if you hit ice you're in trouble whether you slide 30ft with winters or 50ft without. This is only based on the report in this thread so I would like to read some more stats on it. Obviously there are a lot of "independent" reports paid for by companies with vested interests

I was against getting them but came full circle and ended up getting some but this was mostly to give me the option of skiing in Europe in the future. You need significant snow and regular temps below 3C to make them worthwhile IMO.
I should add that if you do get significant snow and you do get regular temps below 3C (not just below 7C), I think they are a necessity, mostly for the help from the tread to get moving from a standstill in snow
__________________

F25 xDrive20d SE __ professional multimedia package | dynamic package | climate package | 309s | xline | xenons | electric seats | folding mirrors | business speakers
sfax is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      11-28-2011, 01:11 PM   #15
tuco44
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Drives: 2012 E82 135i MSport 6MT
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Western Canada

Posts: 1,594
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by soj View Post
Of course u guys are all entitled to your own opinions but enthusiasts aside 99% of the population drives all seasons fine. Yur the 1%.
Horsepuckies. Not around here, the A-S drivers cause traffic accidents, slow down the commute speeds, can't climb hills and don't stop as well. I see it everyday in the winter, especially after a fresh dump of snow, or on black ice.

Our "opinions" are supported by fact.
__________________
2012 135i E82 MSport 6MT Jet Black

Previous BMWs - 2012 135i MSport LMB DCT(sold), 2011 X3 35i MSport VR (sold), 2009 M3 Sedan AW (sold), 2008 535xi MSport AW (sold), 2007 328xiT Barbera (sold), plus 11 others in the 70s & 80s.
tuco44 is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      11-28-2011, 02:43 PM   #16
ScotX3
Private First Class
 
Drives: 3 series
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Scotland

Posts: 111
iTrader: (0)

I've driven to and from work in temps as low as 3-5 degrees over the past few weeks and noticed no difference in handling or braking performance and I'm running the 19" 309s with conti sport contact 3 summer tyres. No science, no stats and no facts to give proof except personal experience.

Granted in snow I'll probably struggle more than those with but I should do a damn sight better than I did in my previous 3 series that ran on summers all the time. The tyre companies and the manufacturers in the uk are taking advantage of last years bad weather in December with their strong marketing campaigns to switch to winter rubber. Granted I can't argue with BMWs youtube that shows the difference between winter and summer tyres however, look where it was filmed...on the side of a mountain...certainly not a motorway that's been pre salted and ploughed.
ScotX3 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      11-28-2011, 03:42 PM   #17
retiredguy
Enlisted Member
 
Drives: 2011 X3
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Cambridge Ontario

Posts: 36
iTrader: (0)

Damn I wish I had read this post earlier, got suckered into that 1%.. just put on my snows.....and we have had no snow here in southern Ontario yet....
retiredguy is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      11-28-2011, 04:09 PM   #18
richardew
Second Lieutenant
 
richardew's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 x335i
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: suburban Phila

Posts: 272
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Where did you get this 80% statistic?
From this thread. Not my stat.
Quote:
If 80% of the time it's dry or just wet, can't imagine snow tires giving you anything.
Quote:
I've driven to and from work in temps as low as 3-5 degrees over the past few weeks and noticed no difference in handling or braking performance and I'm running the 19" 309s with conti sport contact 3 summer tyres. No science, no stats and no facts to give proof except personal experience.
I guess you think the race car drivers that warm up their performance tires to get better grip don't know what they're doing either. Performance tires need to be warm to perform. They are brittle when they are cold and don't grip well. They are horrible in the snow. Your AWD may get you going but your ability to steer and brake are greatly diminished. You do have lots of airbags surrounding you and I hope the vehicle you crash into does as well.
__________________
Rich

'96 911 C4 Cab (276,000 1 owner smiles)
'11 X3 35i Black Sapphire/Beige,SAP, CP, CWP, DHP, PREM, TECH, Sat radio, Hi Fi, BMW apps, smartphone, 19" w/mixed performance tires.
richardew is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      11-28-2011, 04:45 PM   #19
ScotX3
Private First Class
 
Drives: 3 series
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Scotland

Posts: 111
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by richardew View Post
Quote:
Where did you get this 80% statistic?
From this thread. Not my stat.
Quote:
If 80% of the time it's dry or just wet, can't imagine snow tires giving you anything.
Quote:
I've driven to and from work in temps as low as 3-5 degrees over the past few weeks and noticed no difference in handling or braking performance and I'm running the 19" 309s with conti sport contact 3 summer tyres. No science, no stats and no facts to give proof except personal experience.
I guess you think the race car drivers that warm up their performance tires to get better grip don't know what they're doing either. Performance tires need to be warm to perform. They are brittle when they are cold and don't grip well. They are horrible in the snow. Your AWD may get you going but your ability to steer and brake are greatly diminished. You do have lots of airbags surrounding you and I hope the vehicle you crash into does as well.
Thanks for the reply. I guess you think I'm a complete fool who is clueless especially after your comment about racing cars which is completely irrelevant.

All I'm saying is I don't think the £1500 investment in winter wheels is worth it for me. If the roads are a white out then I'll take the local polices advice and work from home till the roads have been cleared.
ScotX3 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      11-28-2011, 04:58 PM   #20
cadman50
Second Lieutenant
 
Drives: 2012 X3 35i
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Massachusetts

Posts: 261
iTrader: (0)

It was a necessity for me to have the snow tires on when i drove across the country in mid-winter or climbing up to ski resorts on winding steep snowcovered mountain roads because no telling what type of conditions I would be running into so to err on the side of caution was paramount. And looking back it was smart. But now I don't plan on doing that however I do plan on driving in snowstorms to resorts in New England that have a much milder grade and mostly interstate. So it got me thinking about how the BMW AWD system combined with trac ctrl and ABS is with the RFT all-season's and how people felt driving them inthe snow covered roads.. I know it's a PIA to have to change over twice a year. I DID like the handling with the snow's on. But on the other hand I wondered how it handles without the snow's on. I guess there is only one way to find out huh. BTW, what is the differecne between snow tires and winter tires? I saw that mentioned here.
cadman50 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      11-28-2011, 06:01 PM   #21
midlifecrisis
Captain
 
Drives: 2008 E90 M3 - IB/ExBB
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: New Jersey

Posts: 683
iTrader: (0)

I agree with those who recommend winter tires. You never know when you'll need the extra margin of stopping or steering ability - and the difference between all-season and winter tires is significant. With any AWD vehicle, getting started isn't the issue. How many SUVs have you seen in a ditch during a snowstorm? I've seen many. I think they ended up there because they were able to get going but didn't think about how they were going to steer or stop. People who drive in snow or freezing weather on a regular basis are making a good investment in their own (and their loved ones') safety when they buy winter tires.
__________________
2008 E90 M3 - Dinan Stage 3 and BBS CH's
2000 328i sedan (UUC suspension - still the favorite)
2012 Mini Cooper (wife's)
1991 325iX (sold - gone but not forgotten!)
2014 X5 35d (Performance Center delivery May '14)

Last edited by midlifecrisis; 11-28-2011 at 06:40 PM.
midlifecrisis is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      11-28-2011, 07:03 PM   #22
richardew
Second Lieutenant
 
richardew's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 x335i
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: suburban Phila

Posts: 272
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Thanks for the reply. I guess you think I'm a complete fool who is clueless especially after your comment about racing cars which is completely irrelevant.
I don't think you are a fool. In fact, I think that you have great taste in cars. You may in fact be a nobel prize winning scientist or perhaps serve burgers at McDonalds. The point I tried to make with regards to race cars is that the drivers want their tires to be warm/hot because they grip better. That's why summer performance tires suck in the winter because they don't warm up and they grip worser (the opposite of better?). I can't call off work when the weather is bad so I go with a winter setup.
__________________
Rich

'96 911 C4 Cab (276,000 1 owner smiles)
'11 X3 35i Black Sapphire/Beige,SAP, CP, CWP, DHP, PREM, TECH, Sat radio, Hi Fi, BMW apps, smartphone, 19" w/mixed performance tires.
richardew is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:24 AM.




xbimmers
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST