BMW X3 Forum
BMW X3 Forum
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
XBimmers | BMW X3 Forum > BMW X3 Forums | F25 (2011 - Current) > Second Generation BMW X3 General Forum » Best tires for Canadian winter?

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      09-04-2011, 05:34 PM   #23
retiredguy
Enlisted Member
 
Drives: 2011 X3
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Cambridge Ontario

Posts: 36
iTrader: (0)

Thanks for that info. The quote I got from local dealer not to bad, 3200 plus tax for Pirelli Scorpions and alloy rims considering ordering from tire rack for tires and rims plus tpms sensors. If you have a flat with a run flat tire do you have to replace one or 2 tires. Believe in Ontario that both tires have to match, but I am a real novice re tires. Thanks again.
retiredguy is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      09-04-2011, 07:45 PM   #24
Lotus7
Major
 
Drives: xxxx
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: xxxx

Posts: 1,041
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by retiredguy View Post
... If you have a flat with a run flat tire do you have to replace one or 2 tires. Believe in Ontario that both tires have to match, but I am a real novice re tires. Thanks again.
As long as you can get a tire of the same brand and model (and obviously the same size) there is no need to replace the other side tire. If you can't get the same brand/model, it's a good idea to check the specific tire specifications. Tires of the same size made by different manufacturers can vary a little in rolling diameter (number of revolutions per mile)

If the difference is small (less then 1%) it's probably OK to mix brands (but not recommended). If it's more, you may have problems with the stability control system sensing an error. Also, it's never a good idea to have tires with different traction characteristics on the same axle.
Lotus7 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      09-04-2011, 09:48 PM   #25
mbell
New Member
 
Drives: 2012 BMW X1 2.8
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Edmonton

Posts: 17
iTrader: (0)

All of the tires are good options, but I think that the best option for a non-run flat is the Nokian Hakkapeliitta R, likely the best over all winter tire on the market.

We have been running them 2 years on our MDX and they are better than Blizzaks we have previously had - especially on ice.
mbell is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      09-05-2011, 10:56 AM   #26
jlr_1304
Private First Class
 
jlr_1304's Avatar
 
Drives: none
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Canada

Posts: 160
iTrader: (0)

Can someone confirm if it is possible to install 17" winter tires, comming from the m-sport 19" 245, non staggered?
jlr_1304 is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      09-05-2011, 11:26 AM   #27
XB101
Second Lieutenant
 
Drives: 2011 TiAg X3 35i
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Western Canada

Posts: 225
iTrader: (0)

The dealer do have for the X3 the 225 60 17s. IF they have it on their website as winters for the X3 I take it they do fit and work. I am leaning toward 18".
XB101 is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      09-05-2011, 12:10 PM   #28
clarka@csolve.net
Private
 
clarka@csolve.net's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 X3 with M Sport
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Ontario, Canada

Posts: 82
iTrader: (0)

We just bought a set of used aftermarket BMW rims with 245/50/R18 Yokahama W Drive tires on them. The rims and tires are like new! Unfortunately, we did our homework on tire size but not on rim compatibility. They are off of a 7 series. We will check with our tire guy this week to see if they will work. We are keeping our fingers and toes crossed!

Worst case scenario, we bought them for a good price so hopefully we can flip them if we need to.
clarka@csolve.net is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      09-05-2011, 12:15 PM   #29
clarka@csolve.net
Private
 
clarka@csolve.net's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 X3 with M Sport
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Ontario, Canada

Posts: 82
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by retiredguy View Post
Thanks for that info. The quote I got from local dealer not to bad, 3200 plus tax for Pirelli Scorpions and alloy rims considering ordering from tire rack for tires and rims plus tpms sensors. If you have a flat with a run flat tire do you have to replace one or 2 tires. Believe in Ontario that both tires have to match, but I am a real novice re tires. Thanks again.
Don't hesitate to get the Pirelli Scorpions. We had them on our Nissan Murano and they were awesome no matter how deep the snow and great on ice/slush; we live in the snow belt north of Toronto. We would've gotten them again but are trying to save a few bucks.
clarka@csolve.net is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      09-05-2011, 06:16 PM   #30
Lotus7
Major
 
Drives: xxxx
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: xxxx

Posts: 1,041
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by clarka@csolve.net View Post
We just bought a set of used aftermarket BMW rims with 245/50/R18 Yokahama W Drive tires on them. The rims and tires are like new! Unfortunately, we did our homework on tire size but not on rim compatibility. They are off of a 7 series. We will check with our tire guy this week to see if they will work. We are keeping our fingers and toes crossed!

Worst case scenario, we bought them for a good price so hopefully we can flip them if we need to.
The Spec. for X3 (F25) wheels in the 18 inch diameter are:
wheel width = 8 inches
Bolt circle = 5 X120 mm
Hubcentric bore = 72.5 mm
Offset = 45 mm (acceptable range 43 to 47)

For the 7 Series (depending on year/chassis):
wheel width = 8 or 8.5 inches (OK)
Bolt circle = 5X120 mm (OK)
Hubcentric bore = 72.5 mm or 74.1 mm (depending on model)
(will fit if 72.5, but if 74.1 reducing rings can be installed) (qualified OK)
Offset = 18 mm (acceptable range 15 to 20mm) (NOT OK)

If the wheels are from a late model 7 Series, they might actually mount on the X3 because they have the correct center bore. However the centerline of the tires will be 25 mm further out on each side. That may cause the outer sidewall to rub on the fender, but more importantly the wheel bearing loading will be way off center leading to almost certain wheel bearing damage. Unfortunately, the lack of enough positive offset can’t be compensated. (spacers reduce the effective offset for positively offset wheels, so won’t help.

The other issue is the that the TPMS transmitters in the 7 Series wheel won’t work with a F25 chassis X3, so would all have to be replaced if you want the TPMS system to function.

Since they're aftermarket rims, you may be lucky and find the person who purchased them for the 7 didn't bother to get the correct offset for that chassis. It's easy to measure the offset (again it should be around 45 mm for the X3).
Sorry for the bad news.
Lotus7 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      09-05-2011, 06:45 PM   #31
XB101
Second Lieutenant
 
Drives: 2011 TiAg X3 35i
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Western Canada

Posts: 225
iTrader: (0)

Lotus, pretty sure the Canadian X3 do not have the same TPMS. Ours is the cheaper version in the brake unit.
XB101 is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      09-05-2011, 08:17 PM   #32
Lotus7
Major
 
Drives: xxxx
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: xxxx

Posts: 1,041
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by XB101 View Post
Lotus, pretty sure the Canadian X3 do not have the same TPMS. Ours is the cheaper version in the brake unit.
To the best of my knowledge, all X3 (F25)s use the 433 mHz TPMS system. The readout is different in that some models will only show that there is a low tire, and some models will identify which tire is low, but all use the same hardware at the wheels. The differences are only in the software. No X3 since mid-year 2006 has used the older wheel-speed sensing system.

Just take a look at your valve stems. Alloy valve stems = TPMS transmitters, Rubber valve stems= no TPMS transmitters. You will find that all NA X3's use the same part number for the pickup antennas and the TPMS transmitter.

Does anyone have a new X3 with rubber valve stems?

Last edited by Lotus7; 09-05-2011 at 08:29 PM.
Lotus7 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      09-05-2011, 09:12 PM   #33
tuco44
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Drives: 2012 E82 135i MSport 6MT
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Western Canada

Posts: 1,594
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lotus7 View Post
To the best of my knowledge, all X3 (F25)s use the 433 mHz TPMS system. The readout is different in that some models will only show that there is a low tire, and some models will identify which tire is low, but all use the same hardware at the wheels. The differences are only in the software. No X3 since mid-year 2006 has used the older wheel-speed sensing system.

Just take a look at your valve stems. Alloy valve stems = TPMS transmitters, Rubber valve stems= no TPMS transmitters. You will find that all NA X3's use the same part number for the pickup antennas and the TPMS transmitter.

Does anyone have a new X3 with rubber valve stems?
Yep, I do, and I suspect all Cdn X3s do. Of the last three BMWs I have had, only the 2009 E90 M3 had the alloy valve stems. Cdn and US specs often differ.
__________________
2012 135i E82 MSport 6MT Jet Black

Previous BMWs - 2012 135i MSport LMB DCT(sold), 2011 X3 35i MSport VR (sold), 2009 M3 Sedan AW (sold), 2008 535xi MSport AW (sold), 2007 328xiT Barbera (sold), plus 11 others in the 70s & 80s.
tuco44 is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      09-05-2011, 09:46 PM   #34
Lotus7
Major
 
Drives: xxxx
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: xxxx

Posts: 1,041
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by tuco44 View Post
Yep, I do, and I suspect all Cdn X3s do. Of the last three BMWs I have had, only the 2009 E90 M3 had the alloy valve stems. Cdn and US specs often differ.
Amazing!
It's hard to believe that BMW would have to support (2) different tire pressure monitoring systems. Maybe the differing legally mandated system specs result in the need for differing ways to do it. At least you don't have to worry about adding the transmitters to aftermarket wheels, replacing batteries, and it also opens up the option of using tire sealers in leaking tires without destroying the TPMS transmitter.

I'd be very interested in knowing how much pressure loss is needed in a wheel speed sensing system when running run-flat tires. Apparently the thick sidewalls don't deflect very much so the wheel speed does not change very much when the tire looses air. That should make it somewhat more difficult to detect a tire going down. The direct pressure measuring system (with TPMS transmitters) is apparently programmed to signal a low tire warning when the pressure drops 3 psi.
Lotus7 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      09-05-2011, 10:03 PM   #35
XB101
Second Lieutenant
 
Drives: 2011 TiAg X3 35i
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Western Canada

Posts: 225
iTrader: (0)

So with the different monitoring system would it make a difference when one replace the RFT with regular tires? My old 2004 CTS-V actually had readings for each tire. Would be nice to know exactly if one is just a bit off.
XB101 is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      09-05-2011, 11:26 PM   #36
Lotus7
Major
 
Drives: xxxx
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: xxxx

Posts: 1,041
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by XB101 View Post
So with the different monitoring system would it make a difference when one replace the RFT with regular tires? My old 2004 CTS-V actually had readings for each tire. Would be nice to know exactly if one is just a bit off.
A system that indirectly detects a low tire by monitoring for any differences in rotational speed (between tires) (which apparently is what the Canadian X3's use, but not the US X3) should be more sensitive to pressure drops in a regular tire as compared to a run-flat because of the "stiffer" run-flat sidewalls.

Either system will tell you if a tire is low, but how much of a loss it takes to trigger the warning is something that the design engineer determines.

With wheels, which contain a TPMS transmitter that sends a radio signal carrying the pressure reading, the real pressure drop in PSI is measured and the trigger level can be calibrated in real units (PSI). With an "indirect system, the car's computer receives a reading of a slightly different average rotational speed of one of the tires and interprets that speed difference as a change in the effective rolling circumference which varies with the tire air pressure.

Tires of different construction or tires of different aspect ratio or possible different brands/models, will have a different "air pressure vs. rotational speed factor". Since the rotational speed triggers the warnings, the tire pressure drop (in real air pressure) will vary. It probably will be more sensitive to small pressure drops using regular tires as compared to run-flats, but the only way to be sure is to test it.

That's why I wondered in a previous post "I'd be very interested in knowing how much pressure loss is needed..."
Lotus7 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      09-06-2011, 10:43 AM   #37
mtlbrad
Private First Class
 
Drives: 2011 X35i
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: montreal

Posts: 121
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jlr_1304 View Post
Some quotes from MTL region, all tx/installation included.

reseller :4X dunlop p225 60R17 + rims 3440$
BMW dealer :4X pirelli p245 50R18 + rims 4100$ (including storage for summer tires)

One BMW dealer said that 17"/18" will work on the 35i m-sport, the other said only 18" would work. Bit confusing.
Check tiretrends, 18" dunlops winter sport m3, not the run flats, for 4 come out to 1234 including shipping/taxes. I'm calling around and montreal tire prices are out of control, but doesn't surprise me.

Tiretrends, 1010tires, tirerack, should all be cheaper than buying anywhere locally in montreal.
mtlbrad is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      09-06-2011, 03:56 PM   #38
jlr_1304
Private First Class
 
jlr_1304's Avatar
 
Drives: none
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Canada

Posts: 160
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mtlbrad View Post
Check tiretrends, 18" dunlops winter sport m3, not the run flats, for 4 come out to 1234 including shipping/taxes. I'm calling around and montreal tire prices are out of control, but doesn't surprise me.

Tiretrends, 1010tires, tirerack, should all be cheaper than buying anywhere locally in montreal.
You still need a no RFT rim that would fit the m-sport X3. Can we fit a TPMS trasmitter also?

Prices for RFT + rims are insane.
jlr_1304 is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      09-06-2011, 05:06 PM   #39
Lotus7
Major
 
Drives: xxxx
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: xxxx

Posts: 1,041
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jlr_1304 View Post
You still need a no RFT rim that would fit the m-sport X3. Can we fit a TPMS trasmitter also?

Prices for RFT + rims are insane.
If the car is equipped with a wheel speed sensing TPMS system, then fitting the transmitters is of no value. The car will not have the required pick-up antennae and electronics. The vehicle will sense a low tire by measuring a speed difference between the low tire and the other, normally inflated ones. If your X3 currently has rubber tire valve stems, and has a functioning TPMS system you have no use for TPMS transmitters.

For the best (safest) possible situation if you have to drive on a completely flat tire, BMW recommends using "run-flat" wheels (these have an extra "hump" that helps keep the the bead completely seated on the rim under cornering loads). However, several tire manufacturers (but not all) now say that their "third-generation" run-flat tires can be used safely on any rim, as long as they are driven conservatively. I believe Bridgestone and Dunlop are in this camp, while Pirelli, GoodYear and Michelin are noncommittal, and don't say you shouldn’t use plain rims, but they also don't specify that a run-flat rim is absolutely necessary for their tires.

Non run-flat tires can be mounted on RFT rims, it's just a little harder, usually more expensive, and requires a RFT mounting machine.

Since all the BMW wheels have the extra "safety hump", and since it's obviously a theoretically better solution, that's all that BMW recommends.

I have my Winter Dunlop SP Winter Sports ROF mounted on aftermarket wheels (no- rft hump), and if I get a flat will just drive carefully at speeds well below the 50 mph limit as well as corner very carefully. (Fingers crossed)
Lotus7 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      09-06-2011, 05:07 PM   #40
clarka@csolve.net
Private
 
clarka@csolve.net's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 X3 with M Sport
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Ontario, Canada

Posts: 82
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lotus7 View Post
The Spec. for X3 (F25) wheels in the 18 inch diameter are:
wheel width = 8 inches
Bolt circle = 5 X120 mm
Hubcentric bore = 72.5 mm
Offset = 45 mm (acceptable range 43 to 47)

For the 7 Series (depending on year/chassis):
wheel width = 8 or 8.5 inches (OK)
Bolt circle = 5X120 mm (OK)
Hubcentric bore = 72.5 mm or 74.1 mm (depending on model)
(will fit if 72.5, but if 74.1 reducing rings can be installed) (qualified OK)
Offset = 18 mm (acceptable range 15 to 20mm) (NOT OK)

If the wheels are from a late model 7 Series, they might actually mount on the X3 because they have the correct center bore. However the centerline of the tires will be 25 mm further out on each side. That may cause the outer sidewall to rub on the fender, but more importantly the wheel bearing loading will be way off center leading to almost certain wheel bearing damage. Unfortunately, the lack of enough positive offset can’t be compensated. (spacers reduce the effective offset for positively offset wheels, so won’t help.

The other issue is the that the TPMS transmitters in the 7 Series wheel won’t work with a F25 chassis X3, so would all have to be replaced if you want the TPMS system to function.

Since they're aftermarket rims, you may be lucky and find the person who purchased them for the 7 didn't bother to get the correct offset for that chassis. It's easy to measure the offset (again it should be around 45 mm for the X3).
Sorry for the bad news.
Thanks Lotus for the unfortunate details. I thought we were safe because of the bolt pattern and tire size but you're right; the offset is very different. Fitting wheels is a much more complex process than my spouse and I bargained for! I guess we should've left it up to the professionals. Now we have to decide whether to sell the wheels with/without the rubber. We could keep the rubber and buy new rims to fit.
clarka@csolve.net is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      09-06-2011, 05:44 PM   #41
clarka@csolve.net
Private
 
clarka@csolve.net's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 X3 with M Sport
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Ontario, Canada

Posts: 82
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lotus7 View Post
The Spec. for X3 (F25) wheels in the 18 inch diameter are:
wheel width = 8 inches
Bolt circle = 5 X120 mm
Hubcentric bore = 72.5 mm
Offset = 45 mm (acceptable range 43 to 47)

For the 7 Series (depending on year/chassis):
wheel width = 8 or 8.5 inches (OK)
Bolt circle = 5X120 mm (OK)
Hubcentric bore = 72.5 mm or 74.1 mm (depending on model)
(will fit if 72.5, but if 74.1 reducing rings can be installed) (qualified OK)
Offset = 18 mm (acceptable range 15 to 20mm) (NOT OK)

If the wheels are from a late model 7 Series, they might actually mount on the X3 because they have the correct center bore. However the centerline of the tires will be 25 mm further out on each side. That may cause the outer sidewall to rub on the fender, but more importantly the wheel bearing loading will be way off center leading to almost certain wheel bearing damage. Unfortunately, the lack of enough positive offset can’t be compensated. (spacers reduce the effective offset for positively offset wheels, so won’t help.

The other issue is the that the TPMS transmitters in the 7 Series wheel won’t work with a F25 chassis X3, so would all have to be replaced if you want the TPMS system to function.

Since they're aftermarket rims, you may be lucky and find the person who purchased them for the 7 didn't bother to get the correct offset for that chassis. It's easy to measure the offset (again it should be around 45 mm for the X3).
Sorry for the bad news.
Lotus, with the 7 series wheel specs that you have listed, will these wheels only fit a 7 series? Just asking to help with resale. Thanks again!
clarka@csolve.net is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      09-06-2011, 06:27 PM   #42
Lotus7
Major
 
Drives: xxxx
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: xxxx

Posts: 1,041
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by clarka@csolve.net View Post
Lotus, with the 7 series wheel specs that you have listed, will these wheels only fit a 7 series? Just asking to help with resale. Thanks again!
If your 18 inch wheels actually have a 15 to 20 mm offset, they will actually fit quite a few late model BMW's.

They will fit on all 5-Series except the M5 and E39 chassis (74.1 mm hubs).

They will fit all 6-Series except the M6 (possible brake clearance problems)

They will fit all Late model 7-Series including the E32/38, E63/64

They WON'T fit the 3-Series (except for the rears only of certain M3's)

They WON'T fit any current or older model X-3, X-5, X-6

They WON'T fit any of the Z-Series cars (which use some very strange wheel specs.)

Obviously, there may be special case exceptions as some models have body features or big brakes that require special wheels.

Hope this is of some help.
Lotus7 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      09-06-2011, 07:33 PM   #43
clarka@csolve.net
Private
 
clarka@csolve.net's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 X3 with M Sport
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Ontario, Canada

Posts: 82
iTrader: (0)

Thanks so much Lotus! It's difficult to sellt a set of wheels that you unsure what they'll fit on!
clarka@csolve.net is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      09-07-2011, 12:47 PM   #44
mtlbrad
Private First Class
 
Drives: 2011 X35i
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: montreal

Posts: 121
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lotus7 View Post
If the car is equipped with a wheel speed sensing TPMS system, then fitting the transmitters is of no value. The car will not have the required pick-up antennae and electronics. The vehicle will sense a low tire by measuring a speed difference between the low tire and the other, normally inflated ones. If your X3 currently has rubber tire valve stems, and has a functioning TPMS system you have no use for TPMS transmitters.

For the best (safest) possible situation if you have to drive on a completely flat tire, BMW recommends using "run-flat" wheels (these have an extra "hump" that helps keep the the bead completely seated on the rim under cornering loads). However, several tire manufacturers (but not all) now say that their "third-generation" run-flat tires can be used safely on any rim, as long as they are driven conservatively. I believe Bridgestone and Dunlop are in this camp, while Pirelli, GoodYear and Michelin are noncommittal, and don't say you shouldn’t use plain rims, but they also don't specify that a run-flat rim is absolutely necessary for their tires.

Non run-flat tires can be mounted on RFT rims, it's just a little harder, usually more expensive, and requires a RFT mounting machine.

Since all the BMW wheels have the extra "safety hump", and since it's obviously a theoretically better solution, that's all that BMW recommends.

I have my Winter Dunlop SP Winter Sports ROF mounted on aftermarket wheels (no- rft hump), and if I get a flat will just drive carefully at speeds well below the 50 mph limit as well as corner very carefully. (Fingers crossed)
Wait, I planned on mounting my new non rfts dunlops winter sport on the standard 18" rims that came with the car. Are you saying that won't be possible?
mtlbrad is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:46 PM.




xbimmers
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST