[WWM3]

Originally Posted by bradleyland

Hate to pick on you, but this is exactly why people like Mako get aggravated with the "real M" stuff. Whether or not a vehicle is or isn't a "real M" is a matter of manufacture, not opinion. I would respectfully ask that everyone stop using that language in the interest of developing a more nuanced discourse. Everything you said could be restated without that phrasing, and it instantly becomes less of a hot button issue.

To further pick a fight where I said I didn't want to lol I take issue with the entire stance. The XNM vehicles are to standard SUVs what MN cars are to standard cars. What does M stand for? If we trace it back to the very beginning, M took a standard road car and make it in to a superstar. Could the same not be said for the X5M and X6M? They're not real M cars because they're not cars at all, but they are still M made. They both get suspensions developed specifically for the M models, and they both get M engines. They're still SUVs, but they've been given the proper M treatment.

Every seems to take issue with the fact that they're SUVs, but that's a baseless stance from which to make an argument. Ever heard of the European Truck Racing Championships? Enthusiasm for all things automobile knows no boundaries. I have no desire to own a racing semi, or any semi for that matter, but I'm sure Volvo enthusiasts don't begrudge Volvo for making racing semis.

What "makes something M", is what "M makes". If M makes very special SUVs, then very special SUVs are real M. There's far more to be concerned about with regard to the dilution of M's values than the fact that they chose to make class-leading performance SUVs.

A more nuanced discourse? Respectfully ask posters stop using this language? I certainly take exception to someone implying that my comments are representative of whats wrong with the discussion on these forums.

I wasn't looking for an argument and I clarified that yes, the X5 M is an M car because
Its built by M. I wasn't trying to dispute that at all but unfortunately ended up doing so. Although the fact that they are built in SC next to the regular X5 and X6 is worth noting IMO.

Why don't you stop on over in the M4 forums and see how they criticize any car magazine that dares find fault with their car. Car and driver loves the new M4? great! new review that isnt as positive? its a rag anyway! Or maybe the thread where its expensive watches pictured in your M car. So I do apologize for lowering the standards of car discussion around here by saying that the X5M isn't representative of what M stands for in my opinion. M cars aren't just about taking a vehicle and making it special. I think thats dumbing it down. There was always driver involvement. That is severely lacking with those SUVs. Is that because they are SUVs? Not sure. They are fast and handle OK but the driving experience lacks that involvement which makes Ms so special. Now maybe I would feel the same way if I drove a new M5 too and maybe the new M2 will have this issue as well. So hopefully these comments are nuanced enough to be deemed worthy of bimmerpost forums.